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Period Story Podcast, Episode 84, Vicky Shilling: Just Start Now

The ninth season of Period Story is here!

My guest on today’s episode is Vicky Shilling, a Self-Belief business coach and author of the book Just Start Now. Vicky helps wellness professionals overcome self-doubt and take action to make an income from their passion for health.

In this episode, Vicky shares: 

  • Her experience of re-learning about her menstrual cycle, period, moods and libido after coming off the pill after 20 years 
  • How understanding cycles, seasons and life stages can help you better run your business 
  • How she shifted from a 10 year career in music management to the work she does now 
  • How she identified the gap in the market for a need to help wellness professionals better market themselves
  • How compassionate self-belief can help people can get out of their own way in business and in life
  • Her upcoming Business Backed By Belief Summit
  • And of course, the story of her first period

Vicky says that if there’s something that you want to do in any realm of your life, be it business or personal, one thing to do is take one step to do something small to just start now, because the power is amazing in reinforcing and creating evidence for yourself of what is possible for you. So move out of that paralysis or thinking about it or dreaming about it or leaving it in your head, take one tangible small step towards what it is you want to do and just sit and feel what that brings for you.

Thank you, Vicky!

Get in touch with Vicky:

Business Backed By Belief Summit

Website

Instagram

Her book – Just Start Now


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SHOW TRANSCRIPT

Le’Nise Brothers:          

Hi Vicky. Thank you so much for coming onto the podcast today. I want to get into the question that I always start the podcast with, which is tell us the story of your very first period.

Vicky Shilling:               

Thank you for having me. Yeah, a story I feel like I don’t tell very often. I’m sure you hear guests say that.

My first period happened when I was about 13. My parents are divorced and they were since the age of five. And as it happened, my first period came when I was on my summer holidays with my dad. So we were staying with my grandparents and my grandmother was there and obviously my dad. I went to the bathroom, realised what I thought was my period and had no females to ask really in that situation, had to explain to my dad what I thought had happened and had no sanitary products or anything in the house obviously. So I had to ask my dad to drive me to the supermarket. He drove me to the supermarket. I went in by myself. I went into the supermarket. I bought something that I think I recognized that my mum probably had sat by the toilet at home. I went to the till with this one thing, he had given me a bit of cash. I felt really embarrassed that that was the one thing on the till and I can remember on the conveyor belt. So I remember at the till picking up a pack of mints and propping it in front of the sanitary pad, as if that would somehow disguise it from everybody else that was able to see it, including the cashier, paid for my sanitary pads and left and used ’em after that. So yeah, it was quite the experience.

Le’Nise Brothers:          

When you got the pads, did you know how to use them? How to put them in your knickers?

Vicky Shilling:               

 I don’t think so, no. I think at school we’d had Tampax come in and do a talk around tampons and so we’d had that explained. But my mum at home had sanitary pads and that’s what I’d seen and I maybe had a conversation with her and she’d said she didn’t like or didn’t use tampons. And so obviously maybe the comfort level for me was go with what mum had at home. But no, we’d never had a conversation about how to use them. I probably did have to actually read the instructions or look at the back of the packet to work out how to use them.

Le’Nise Brothers:          

And just going back to when you actually saw that you had got your period and did you think, oh my gosh, this is my period and okay, this is something that I’ve been expecting. Even though the situation wasn’t ideal, did you kind of think, okay, I know exactly what this is and what it means?

Vicky Shilling:                

Yes, I think so. I think I had that kind of awareness. I think I definitely had had a conscious awareness in the months leading up to it that my breasts had been growing and felt more sore. I definitely remember exactly, again, I was away from home noticing cervical fluid and being like, oh, that’s different, that’s new. And knowing that that was a sign of menstrual cycle going to come at some point. So yes, I think I knew it was coming. I definitely didn’t know all the ins and outs that I do now. But yes, I definitely knew that that was something that I was expecting to happen around that time.

Le’Nise Brothers:         

You got your period, you got your pads, and then what was your period for the first couple of years, actually, just taking a step back, did you actually have, after you got the pads, did you have any further conversation with your dad about what was going on or it was just kind of like, I don’t…

Vicky Shilling:                

Think we did. No, I think it was literally like this. I probably got back in the car and didn’t want to talk about it. I was probably, and obviously as the first period, I dunno if it’s normal, but it was very light. It didn’t last very long. It was very dark, wasn’t loads of blood or anything, so it was a very transient, little moment of something that had happened. So no, I don’t think I really had a conversation. I assume I must have told my mum at some point when I got home. I didn’t have a brilliant relationship with her, but I’m sure that will have come across and obviously needing more sanitary products, I will have had some kind of conversation with her. But no, I probably didn’t tell my grandparents either. It was probably just very hush hush and get on with it.

Le’Nise Brothers:          

How did you then learn more about what was going on with your body?

Vicky Shilling:               

In all honesty, it was no conversations at home. It was only what we were getting at school. So the very basic biology class in key stage three, it was that Tampax talk that I remember them coming in and kind of explaining and showing and having overhead projector or whatever it was in my day in the nineties explanation. And then I do remember one other PSHE lesson, kind of more general studies class with a few other girls. That was probably a bit later, probably by the time I was in year 10, year 11, age 15, 16. But that was very much all around pregnancy, not getting pregnant, that being the emphasis and the core of the discussion and breakouts and things. So any other learning that I was doing was literally reading the packet that was in the box of Tampax or reading the packet with that. I mean, again, internet early days, I certainly wouldn’t have thought to Google search or find anything else. Magazines maybe Sugar magazine and things like that. But I don’t remember specifically, but that probably would’ve been my only other real contact with information about my period.

Le’Nise Brothers:          

It’s so interesting because when I ask this question and I kind of dig a little bit deeper, I definitely see generational divides where it was conversations with friends or parents or the school or teen magazines where I remember reading about it and we had Seventeen and YM and there was this magazine called Sassy, and that’s where I got a lot of information from. Whereas if I speak to anyone who’s probably, I guess about under 30 now, yeah, they got on the internet, started Googling. Yeah, so definitely see generational differences. But I wonder from then, what was your experience of your period? You said your first one was quite light, and then how was it as you went further into your menstruating years?

Vicky Shilling:                

Yeah, so I mean this is going to be a horror story for a nutritional therapist. I don’t really remember. I think I had about three or four periods after that first one. And then I was put on the hormonal pill by the time I was 14, and that’s because I was experiencing really bad acne. I tried a lot of the kind of topical creams and stuff, been back and forth to the GP and that was the kind of last resort that the GP said, right, why don’t you go on the pill? And it was really affecting my confidence. And so I had heard that that was a fairly effective method of controlling my acne. And so I honestly don’t think I had my own cycle for even six months before I was put on the pill and then it was withdrawal bleeds. It wasn’t actually a real period for 20 years after that.

Le’Nise Brothers:         

20 years, yeah. Wow, okay. Wow. So six months with three or four periods, 20 years of withdrawal bleeds. And just so anyone’s listening who’s like, well, I thought you got your period on your pill. You don’t actually get a period, you just get a withdrawal bleed, which is withdrawal from the hormones in the pill. And then why did you end up coming off the pill?

Vicky Shilling:                

Yeah, so do you know what I understood the term withdrawal because I must’ve had that conversation with my mum. To be fair to her, that was one thing she told me. She said, it’s not a period, it’s a withdrawal bleed. And at least there was that amount of conversation and knowledge with being on the pill. I changed pill when I was at university because I realized the one that I’d been put on for the acne was obviously extremely strong and it was really affecting my mood. I was at university, I was really noticing very low mood several times a week, really had to work with the doctor to try and get it changed, but did change to a different dosage of the kind of balance of the hormones. And it was night and day, like complete transformation in how I felt about myself and those kind of low moods and then continued on. And to be honest, the only reason I came off it was family planning, was starting to think, okay, I’m hearing and knowing that actually I need to not be on the pill to get pregnant obviously, and that it would potentially given the length of time that I’d been on the pill, take quite a while to rebalance everything to let my body actually have and find its own natural rhythm and cycle. And so that was the first time I decided to come off it for any length of time.

Le’Nise Brothers:          

Wow. Okay. So when you came off the pill, can you talk a little bit about what you learned about yourself? Any changes that you saw in yourself, personality relating to others, your now husband, your libido? Can you talk a little bit about that?

Vicky Shilling:                We always joked that I was going to come off it and become a different person. There was a lot I’d have that conversation with him and say, look, I’ve been on this for a really long time. I don’t really know who I am without it. There’s lots of aspects that I might not be able to feel as in control of or that I just won’t be familiar with. I don’t think it affected me anywhere near as much as I thought it might. I don’t think I went through those. He started to observe and be able to reflect back to me, your period’s coming when I would have really, really that really wobbly moment before. And he was always right, dam it a couple of days after it would come, so it could actually tune into that a little bit more, actually feeling like that was a response to what was going on hormonally.

Libido’s a massive one on the pill. It’s just nowhere near as much and yet actually dreaming about it and actually wanting sex a lot more when you’re off. It was again a complete game changer of like, oh wow, I’m actually connected with what I want and my desires and my body rather than that all being suppressed. I always wondered around weight and weight gain and appetite and things again, which I’d kind of heard and read, that might be one of the knock on effects. I don’t think that made a huge amount of difference to me actually whether I was on it or off it. But yeah, it just felt nice to actually be connected with what was actually going on in my body and not be controlling it and to just really watch and observe and be like, the body’s just amazing. And I was very lucky. I know for some people it takes a long time to get their period back. That’s why I came off it and wanted to make sure I gave myself enough time. But I was very lucky it came back and became quite regular fairly quickly, thank goodness, after all the time I’d been on the pill.

Le’Nise Brothers:          

And did you notice if you started ovulating again quite quickly?

Vicky Shilling:                

Yeah, absolutely. And again, obviously like we said, 20 years later there’s all this information, there’s apps, there’s amazing people like you that, there’s videos I can watch, there’s podcasts I can listen to. Actually I do remember because my sister and I were trying for babies and getting, were pregnant at the same time, talking about the consistency of the cervical fluid and stuff like that and being like, the body is amazing. This is absolutely incredible that you can literally see it doing this job and readying itself and knowing what’s going on. So yes, absolutely, I was aware of that and trying to track as much as I could in my very basic way, what was going on.

Le’Nise Brothers:          

And what’s your relationship with your period now?

Vicky Shilling:                

Well, I think obviously we were lucky we got pregnant with our daughter very quickly and I did go back on birth control after that. I wanted to not get pregnant straight away because it was a lot. And then coming back again to having my period again once we came off that birth control. For me it’s just nice knowing that that is all ticking and all going along. I love where I’ve heard people like you and others saying it’s that fourth vital sign that it’s that real sign of your own health and how you’re looking after yourself. And I’m someone that’s always been interested in what I’m eating and I’m trying to get to the gym and move and look after myself. And just knowing that that’s another indicator has been really lovely to be able to tune into.

Le’Nise Brothers:         

And just thinking about the business side of it, because something I talk a lot about in my work is how the hormonal changes that we experience across our cycle can have an impact on the way that we work. And we will segue into talking about the work you do, but just before we do that, did you notice any effect on you as an entrepreneur?

Vicky Shilling:                

Yeah, I think I’m aware that other people are very tuned into this and a lot more than I am in the sense of planning when they’re launching or when they’ll record things, when they’re feeling gregarious and outgoing and able to be very visible and times where they know there is no point I’m going to have all the wobbles and want to hide under the duvet instead. I think partly my personality and the kind of drive that I have and partly having been on the pill and not kind of ironed that out or just driven over any of that kind of tuning into how I was feeling. I probably don’t listen to it as much as other people do and maybe as much as I should, but I think I’m a lot more compassionate and understanding of myself. I think definitely in my business over the last few years, I think globally, especially with the amount of women going into their own businesses, setting up solopreneur businesses, there is slowly this shift away from masculine energy, keep going, hustle, hustle, hustle, push, push, push, do that like a robot 365 days a year, two business is cyclical.

We are cyclical. Things go up and things go down. There are seasons in our business and in our bodies and in our lives and in the world and that is okay and really embracing that as part of being a business owner rather than, oh, I’m a failure if I don’t feel like doing that today or if I haven’t got the energy for it or if I’m feeling a bit emotional and overwhelmed or why could I do it last week, but not today. So just having a lot more curiosity and compassion I think for that being the way it is.

Le’Nise Brothers:          

How does that then connect with the work that you do? So you are a wellness business mentor. That’s one part of the work that you do and your journey into this work has been quite interesting because you had your own health issue, you had IBS, and what’s really interesting is that I see this a lot where someone has a health crisis and then they decide to then become a wellness practitioner in some respect. But you took a different path in that you decided that you were going to help the practitioners. Talk a little bit about that and that the drive that you just mentioned that helped you to move this forward.

Vicky Shilling:                

Yeah, so yeah, you’re right. I started to really explore my own health when I was really struggling with IBS getting really bad symptoms. The job I was doing was very high pressure, lots of travel and I was really struggling with diarrhea, cramping, bloating, all of these things and started to explore that for myself and was just fascinated, felt like I’d unlocked this amazing world. I met a lot of people like nutritional therapists, health coaches, dieticians, other people in this space that were doing incredible things and wanting to be a part of it and not really knowing how. And I did, I shadowed a health coach, I talked to lots of nutritional therapists, looked at all the different courses, and I really thought, is that what I want to do? I was writing my own blog at the time, just sharing my journey, making recipes and sharing on social media.                        

But I don’t know, something just didn’t sit right with that. I was like, no, I’m not really into the science of it massively. It just wasn’t what I wanted to do. And what I slowly realised was the people I was surrounding myself with were all these amazing other practitioners, these people that were doing this training, but the things that they were asking me and the things that I much preferred helping them with and talking to them about was, well, how are you using social media? How did you get your mailing list? How did you start getting paid to do this work or have someone sponsor you on your Instagram or how did you build your website? And I loved helping them with all of that stuff. So there was a part of me that was like, no, no, I want to help people with their health. But the other part of me was like, no, actually what I love helping people with is getting their businesses set up and working and them actually having the ripple effect and using their qualifications and skills. So yeah, I think that’s where the transition and shift, I just had to sit with it and go, actually that’s what I want to do. And trained as a coach instead to help people with that.

Le’Nise Brothers:          

That’s so interesting because it does take a lot of guts to be able to not only identify that you need to go onto a different path, but also to say, I’m going to give up the work that the career that I currently have and set up myself in a completely different field. I don’t think that entrepreneurs, especially those in their thirties and forties and fifties and beyond, get enough credit for being able to say, I’m going to take this risk and set out and do something new. I want to talk about that drive that you mentioned. If someone’s listening to this and thinking that sounds like me. I have this, I’m not satisfied with what I’m currently doing, my current career, I have this idea, but I don’t know how to take this forward. What would you say to them?

Vicky Shilling:                

I think the way that I navigated this was to start exploring it in other ways. So I was working in the music industry and I started the blog, for example. So I found ways to start exploring and playing with it. I didn’t have a clear plan. I didn’t know exactly how I’d make money. I tried different things. I tried working with other people. I did start running retreats and events, kind of wellness things, but I did that all side hustling it, what do you call hobbying it and just really immersing myself in it as much as I could and not putting the pressure on be like, how does this make money or what do I need to do? But really just being curious and soaking up as much as I could and trying to learn as many new skills as I could along the way. So I did, I taught myself how to set up a website and connect with people on social media, went to loads of networking things and talks and met people to just try and see where is my place in all of this and not force it and put pressure on it.

Trust that because a lot of people do say “it’s really brave, you are really courageous. You left the whole music industry after a decade doing that into go into this.” But in the end it kind of felt inevitable. It felt like I can’t keep in the old career. I just don’t have the love and the passion and this is absorbing me completely now. And it didn’t feel like I had a choice. I know that sounds a bit weird, but I was able to shift because I’d done a lot of the kind of stuff on the side and for fun and just exploring. And also, I’m not saying that everyone has to leave the country, but I happened to leave the country and move in with my then boyfriend now husband who lives in Ireland. And actually that gave me a bit of a clean slate and a fresh start to go, do you know what? I’m just going to give this a go when I introduce myself when I land in Ireland, I’m just going to say this is what I do instead. I work in the wellness industry and I’m helping people with this instead. And I’m running retreats, met a nutritional therapist here. We started running retreats and just that became my new identity. I know that’s very difficult to do, but that was how I managed to make that transition.

Le’Nise Brothers:          

I really love that because I think that people are a bit afraid of doing that sort of thing, especially in this day and age where you have all of these different social media platforms where you spend so much time establishing your identity on those platforms. And when you make those shifts, it’s people saying, well, I thought you were this and you having to relabel yourself and people resisting that relabeling and that kind of wanting to keep you in that same box. So being able to say, well no, actually this is what I’m doing now and you can it love or lump it to be frank. 

Vicky Shilling:                

That’s why I always noticed that people really struggle with a platform like LinkedIn because they will have potentially built up quite a reputation. Like I had lots of connections in orchestras and orchestra management and festivals and all these classical music connections and if you Googled my name, that’s what would come up. My LinkedIn profile and all of my music credentials and my music management, my orchestra, orchestral management credentials and slowly it was, you’re right? You have to shift the identity and go, no, in a year’s time you’re going to Google me and find that I am a business coach, that I’ve got this social media profile that that’s who I am and I’m pivoting. And that can feel very vulnerable and confronting for people, cos there’s lots of other people watching then I guess and being like, well, the sort of judgment that comes with it, what are you doing? Why are you leaving? And are you sure you want to do that? And is that a good idea? And all the stuff, the baggage of everyone else’s opinions that comes with it.

Le’Nise Brothers:          

Yeah, and I think part of it is it can be quite confronting for people like, oh well am I doing the right thing? What about the choices that I’ve made? And they start questioning themselves because then that manifests in them exhibiting discomfort in your choice. But what kind of underpins all of this is belief and this idea of belief is quite an interesting one because it’s belief in yourself but also belief in others. And you have also retrained or trained as a self-belief coach and belief figures, features quite a lot in the work you do. Talk a little bit about belief and self-belief and why you think people can struggle with this.

Vicky Shilling:                

I think it was my work. So when I got started with this, it was, oh, people just need to know the practical things. I’ll show them step by step how to set up a mailing list. I’ll show them what to post on social media to get clients, all of these practical things that we think we need to learn and we do. We don’t know what we don’t know if we’re starting our own business and trying to get customers, how do we package ourselves and niche down and all of these things. And the bit that was fascinating me was even when you broke it down, even when you explained it to people, if you explain why you were doing it, most people weren’t doing it still. They just couldn’t take the steps. It didn’t matter how simple you laid it out, how step-by-step, it was they would still find a way to get in their own way.

And that was the bit that started to really fascinate me. And like you say, why I’d come back to self-doubt and self-belief. The difference between someone being given the instructions on how to set up a website and going away and doing it and someone else being given the exact same instructions and never being able to do it is literally self-belief. Which stories and beliefs does one person have that play out that enable them to follow the steps through, deal with any difficulties, ask for help, follow the steps, get it out there, and what are the stories and beliefs being held by someone who doesn’t feel able to follow those steps? And that’s the bit that’s really juicy for me and the bit where we have to be really honest with ourselves to dig a little bit into what’s really going on here, what is holding me back. It’s mostly not that you are incapable or you don’t have the right information because usually the right information’s out there or someone can give you the advice. It’s how am I thinking and believing about taking that step and doing that thing. And for me is that compassionate process of exploring that understanding it, understanding it’s a protective part of ourselves and rewiring it a little bit and putting something else new in there that we can experiment with that’s a bit more helpful and supportive.

Le’Nise Brothers:          

What’s really interesting about this framing as around belief and self-belief is that I find it a much more positive way of thinking about it versus focusing on this idea of imposter syndrome and labeling yourself as having this imposter syndrome. And it is something I talk a lot about in the work I do, just these labels that we give ourselves. When people talk about my PMS and my endometriosis, I really ask my clients not to do that. And I love this idea of focusing on belief, focusing on self-belief. So if someone’s listening and they’re thinking everything you’ve said, I really relate to that, I know exactly what I need to do, but I’m really struggling to just kind of as your book, your book Just Start Now. I’m struggling to just start now. What can they do? What are the kind of basic levers that they can pull to start believing themselves a bit more?

Vicky Shilling:                

Again, from a coaching perspective, I always like to ask a few questions. For me it is what is the step that I want to do? What is the thing that I want to do? Try and break that down into a particular task. Is it, I don’t know, pitch yourself to feature somewhere or run an event or I don’t know, even take a nutritional therapy qualification. What is that step? And then asking yourself, what is it I am afraid is going to happen if I do that thing? Being really honest about what is going on here that it might be a conscious or a subconscious level, but try and get it out. What is it that I’m afraid will happen if I do that thing? And really what underlines that? What is the belief I hold about myself because of that? So for example, if it is I want to get a website put out there, but right now I am worried that I will be judged or what will my neighbors think or what will my mother-in-law think of me?

So the belief there is I’ll put a website out and I’ll be judged. Okay, can we reframe that? Can we find another way? Think about it to look at it from the book that I talk a lot about. Okay, well there’s lots of logical things we can apply to that. Your mother-in-Law perhaps is not your ideal client. She’s not the one that needs to buy from this website. Can we focus instead on my ideal client’s need to see what’s on my website? Can you believe and focus on that? Can you find evidence and take actions to reinforce that as a belief system and as a kind of mantra for yourself instead. So it is, it’s understanding what is the belief that’s holding me back. Finding something that you can get on board with that is a neutral or more positive version of that. And then creating a little experiment to go, how can I test out whether it’s true that people need to see my words in the world or that it would be helpful if I shared this particular piece of content on social media or whatever it is, and keep building that. I’m a big believer in that compound effect. It doesn’t have to be big grand gestures, just teeny tiny little things that prove to you that actually you are needed. Your wanting what you want is possible.

Le’Nise Brothers:          

I really love that. And it reminds me of, I actually had to do that exact exercise when I first graduated and I did this little training course and they were talking about things that were holding us back from getting more clients or getting the exposure and one of the things, they asked us to raise our hand and give examples and I said, one of the beliefs I had was, and notice I said had, is people don’t care what I have to say. People aren’t interested in what I have to say. And I know that might feel amazing to hear me say that now, considering I have a podcast, I’ve written a book, I have fairly large social media platforms, but that was something that I really held deeply at the time and they actually did this live coaching exercise where they helped me kind of unpick this belief that was holding me back and think, why do you think that, what would happen if you just did it anyway? And I think that’s really powerful, being able to kind of unpick, well, what is it that I believe and is it really true? Is this really true?

Vicky Shilling:                

What else could be true is one of my favorite versions that like, yes, you’re right, Le’Nise. One version is that nobody wants to hear anything that you have to say. Please stop saying it. No one cares. You’re right. Maybe that’s true. What else could be true instead that might be more helpful to believe, just say with something else instead.

Le’Nise Brothers:          

Yeah, it’s incredible these beliefs that we have, these limiting beliefs to use, the kind of coaching vernacular that we can have that can hold us back. And this kind of takes us quite nicely into something that you’ve got coming up, which is the Business Backed by Belief Summit. So belief again that fantastic word. Tell us more about this summit and tell us how listeners can get involved.

Vicky Shilling:                

Yeah, so the whole premise is exactly like I’ve been saying to you. It is that for four or five years teaching all the practical things, the bit that I realise is the problem is that people don’t believe in themselves. They don’t believe they’re good enough, they don’t believe that anyone wants to listen to what they have to say, like the old version of you. They don’t believe they’ve priced it correctly, they don’t believe it’s possible, they can get a book deal, all of those things. They don’t have the belief in themselves. And so that’s what the summit is all about, bringing together, particularly for health and wellness professionals, bringing other health and wellness professionals together and business experts who can talk and normalise all of those self-doubt things, thoughts and worries, the fears that we have, the stories that we tell ourselves that we have all experienced, and then some of those experts really giving their insight into how do they shift it, how do they change it?

What mantras, affirmations, belief systems do they now have to more better support taking action and moving forward? Because it doesn’t matter what we do, we could do all of those things, but without actually the right belief systems and supportive belief systems in the background, we won’t get the outcomes and the results that we want or we won’t feel able to take the action at all, even though it’s staring us in their face sometimes. So that’s what it’s all about. Three day free event, 20 speakers, all speaking to different aspects of where you might experience self-doubt in your business and how to go even 1% up on your self-belief.

Le’Nise Brothers:          

Fantastic. I think this will help so many people and if you’re listening, there will be a code that I will put in my links that you’ll see to get access to get all of the information that Vicky has shared. You definitely don’t want to miss this summit. Tell us one thought that you’d like to leave listeners with today.

Vicky Shilling:                

One thought for me with my work, it’s always, it’s the just start now message. If there’s something that you want to do in any realm of your life, be it business or personal, is to take one step to do something small to just start now, because I just think the power is amazing in reinforcing and creating evidence for yourself of what is possible for you. So moving out of that paralysis or thinking about it or dreaming about it or leaving it in your head, taking one tangible small step towards what it is you want to do and just sit and feel what that brings for you. Because I think that for me is where the ball starts rolling and you can move towards what you want to achieve.

Le’Nise Brothers:          

Fantastic. I love that you’ve inspired me because today I’ve been dealing with a few blocks on things and you’ve inspired me to just start now, get going. Where can people find you?

Vicky Shilling:                

My website, best place to come. So vickyshilling.com. I mostly hang out on Instagram, so I’m vicky.shilling. No, very happy to chat there and you can hear all about the summit over there as well if you find me before it happens in June. Yeah. 

Le’Nise Brothers:          

Right. Fantastic. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Vicky Shilling:                

Pleasure. Thank you.

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