My next guest on season 10 of Period Story podcast is Kat Pither. Kat is the founder of Yogi Bare, the global yoga brand and movement community and co-founder of Healthy Metal, a magnesium supplement.
In this episode, Kat shares:
- The story of her pregnancy loss through ectopic pregnancy
- Her initial feeling of relief after losing her period due to disordered eating and substance abuse
- Her journey in nourishment to get her period back, including stepping away from the rules, styles and labels prevalent in the yoga and wellness worlds
- How a wall chart with colourful fun stickers has helped her get back in touch with her menstrual cycle
- How a yoga practice with a lot of self-touch, softness and playfulness helps her slow down and reconnect
- The authenticity behind her yoga brand Yogi Bare
- And of course, the story of her first period
Kat says that instead of looking outwards, it’s important that we look inwards and find the celebration and joy in our bodies.
Thank you, Kat!
Get in touch with Kat:
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SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Le’Nise Brothers:Thank you so much for coming on the show today, Kat. I’m really excited to speak to you. You’re doing so many really interesting things, and we’re going to talk about all of that. But first, let’s talk about the story of your first period.
Kat Pither: Okay, so when you asked me to revisit this memory, I hadn’t thought about it for years and years and years.
I remember being at school and yeah, it just being this very strange urban legend about who’d started their period and just like mum gate gossip about, oh, somebody’s child started their period very, very early. And I just remember being quite scared that this thing was going to happen and it felt like it was going to change everything.
But also not, it feeling quite taboo to speak about and not knowing how to speak about it or what to say. And then when it arrived, so in my family house my bedroom window was at the front of the house. And like it was a bit, it was like one of those American movies, I was just constantly just hanging out the window, just looking at what was going on, on the street in front of us in the drive.
And, it was nighttime and I just remember this very strange sensation in my stomach and then this really weird sensation and then just being like, I’m bleeding. And at first I didn’t even equate it with the time of the month I thought I was dying. And I was like, I was really ashamed and at the time, only my dad and my brother were in the house.
And, my dad is very much not open to talking about female health. But that has changed now because of something I will get into later. But at the time my dad was just like, you know, this was the, the dad that you wouldn’t tell you had a wobbly tooth ’cause he’d try and pull it out and I was just absolutely terrified.
And then it suddenly dawned on me that this was my period and my mum pulled into the driveway in her car just at that moment, bizarrely. And I remember just hanging out the window. Shouting to the whole street, mum, I’m bleeding. And I was just, my mum still laughs about it and still thinks it’s really funny.
She was like, it was Romeo and Juliet gone wrong. That I just decided to announce that the whole street that I’d started my period. But I think I was a little bit late to the party, not crazy late, that like, you know, it was noticeable but definitely later than a lot of my friends. So I’d obviously not being the first, I think made it a little bit easier being a slight late bloomer because I could then have known other people that had gone through the process a little bit.
And not that your friendship. I don’t know if it’s changed now because, my niece is very, she’s just so cool and she’s got her head so screwed on. But at, I remember friendship in your early teens, it wasn’t like that, you know, you wouldn’t sit and chat about health or like feelings very much. So I don’t, I didn’t get like a massive insight, but obviously I’d know that other people had started their cycle before me, so it didn’t feel quite as scary.
Le’Nise Brothers: How old were you?
Kat Pither: I think I was 13, 14. So slightly later. I remember there was a few children in school that had started exceptionally early. I’m talking like nine. And so I think that’s where like, yeah, just knowing that there was, had been a few people that started in primary school, but that almost made it scarier and more taboo because the way it was handled, I mean, oh gosh, I’d really love to have a chat with them now to hear, because everybody knew in our local area that, you know, a 9-year-old had started their period because very gossipy mums.
It was very, uh, it was very much, yeah, like a sitcom round where I lived and everybody knew everyone’s business. So yeah, I wonder how that affected them actually thinking about it now, that would’ve been awful to have been so young and so confused and felt quite isolating. But yeah, 13, 14, where most people I know started at in year seven, I want to say.
So that would be like 12.
Le’Nise Brothers: You were, you were in year nine. Year 10.
Kat Pither: More year eight, year nine .
Le’Nise Brothers: Okay. You thought that you, you were bleeding like as in something was wrong, so you did,
Kat Pither: You never see your own blood, the colour of it, and you’re just like, and it, it’s quite a lot.
It’s more than when you get a paper cut or cut your finger or, you know, graze yourself. And I think my only experiences of blood to date had been small cuts. ’cause I’m quite clumsy, so I was used to scratches and cuts, but nothing major. So it’s the most blood you, you ever see. And, and it’s exceptionally bright in colour and it almost doesn’t feel real.
Le’Nise Brothers: Yeah.
After your initial experience of your period being quite surprised about it and then having this funny story coming out of it what was your experience of your period like as you went through your teenage years?
Kat Pither: I feel like I might wanna just say the trigger warning, um, to anybody that is listening that’s maybe struggled with eating issues throughout their life, but I do feel like it’s really important to be honest.
So I unfortunately fell into disordered eating. It was more because I had pretty horrific anxiety and PTSD, um, and I tried to use things like, um, I had a period of substance abuse quite young at 17, and I had like a, a period of struggling with my eating. And I, I, before that I really struggled with quite severe chronic period pains.
I would actually have to go home from school quite a lot because I would get vomiting. Things that I know now weren’t very normal at all. Um, and I would, yeah, I would be very sick, chronic pain and, uh, nausea and sickness. Then when I, um, fell into this really bad spell I was, I lost my period and just completely disconnected from it.
Unfortunately, I didn’t know, I don’t think like knowledge was as strong as it is now on health and the importance of a period. I think the rhetoric around it growing up had always been, it was an inconvenience, like the shame around it. Like I remember bleeding onto my school skirt. And, uh, just being so embarrassed or whenever I’d have to go home because of the sickness, I would always say it was because of food poisoning or something, but it was my period and I’d be so, so ashamed.
And I felt there was always a bit of judgment from the school nurse. Like, oh, you just get on with it. Like, you know, it’s just a period like why are you making such a big deal? And, you know, people would say stuff if you bled through. I remember though, reading a beautiful story where a woman had taught her her teenage son, that if you ever do see a girl that’s had like a bleed through into her school uniform, give, just don’t say anything.
Just give her your school jumper so she can tie it around her waist. And I was like, oh my goodness. If I ever have children, that’s the kind of care that I want to teach them and to grow up with because that could just change somebody’s life. But yeah, I remember it being a massive inconvenience, uh, or, or seen as an inconvenience and something to hide, something to be ashamed of.
So when I lost it, I actually was relieved. Uh, which is awful because now I look at that and, you know, I, I’ll get into it in a bit, but I’m not sure what life holds for me in terms of having children and, you know, the horror that you can cause yourself that much damage that your body just stops, like your cycle.
And then to feel relieved about it. It’s so warped now looking back at it. But yeah, I just remember thinking, okay, well, you know, this is a horrific time in my life. At least I don’t have to deal with that as well. And then, I just also then started to feel a lot of shame. So I, I did go to a centre to, um, help recover from my, my eating issues.
And one of the markers of recovery was regaining your period. Now I see that as such a positive, but at the time it turned my period into a very scary thing, being like, I can only go home or be seen as recovered and seen as okay and normal if I regain my period. Now I realise that actually having that stress means that you are not going to gain it back, and having that fear and that pressure.
You know, your period will decide when it’s going to come back, when there’s such a spectrum of elements that need to be okay, including your stress levels. It’s not just a correlation between weight and your cycle. It’s so much deeper than that, and we know that now it’s about, you know, I guess, yeah, the calm and, and the safety that your body feels to think, okay, like you feel safe in your body, in your mind, in your soul, in your spirit.
Like you are allowed to have your cycle back because ultimately one part of having your cycle is to be able to have children and your body wants you to be in a state to be able to carry those children healthily. So, obviously that’s not the entirety of it, but that is one aspect of it. And like when you’re in a high stress situation, your body shuts down a lot of basic functions, which is why you never see spies in movies needing to go to the toilet because the body stops that anything that it sees as like extra, um, because you’re in a survival state.
Um, but yeah, having that pressure, and I’ve actually never said this out loud and I can’t believe I’m about to, but I bought some fake blood from a joke shop and I would pour that into my knickers and pour it on the sheets to say, look, I’m fine. You can let me go home now. Um, because I got, I’m tearing up a bit, but, um, I just wanted to go home and I was doing anything and I hadn’t correlated, I hadn’t correlated the deep health.
I just correlated. Must, you know, the surface level of it, that like weight gain, period, freedom. And of course like, you know, freedom from an eating disorder is so much deeper than getting, being able to leave, leave a centre. It’s the same reason why your period comes back. It’s feeling safe in your body and safe in your mind.
And it, yeah, so it was a real journey. It actually took a lot longer to come back than just leaving a centre. It took about three years to come back. And that was a journey in nourishment. That was a journey in finding what sort of worked for me, lowering my stress and connection. I think during that time, losing my cycle at such a pivotal time in life, I really lost touch with what it means to be a woman and femininity.
And I feel like I lost a period of time where you explore femininity or sensuality or confidence more than anything. And I always felt a little bit disconnected from that, and I do feel like that had a wider effect in the rest of my life, not having, uh, a chance to grow the seeds of confidence led to, you know, some bad relationships.
And, you know, being mistreated, I suppose. It led to serious people pleasing throughout my life, like, because I didn’t have any self-worth and self-esteem. And I would say it’s only now in my mid thirties that I’m realising these things, um, and starting to work on these things. But then, um, so I regained my cycle and then I found yoga and got into yoga.
And my journey into yoga was quite, uh. Unusual. I, I found yoga in rehab, so I’d actually fallen into substance addiction like I think it’s quite common. I had undiagnosed ADHD and was also struggling with anxiety. And at the time I was growing up, people didn’t speak about mental health.
You had, uh, TV shows like Skins that really glorified mental health as this very scary, dark trope. And, um, so I didn’t really know how to express that. I actually had this acute anxiety and I’d had a quite traumatising experience going to a centre. Uh, then I fell into substance abuse. I think ADHD, when it’s undiagnosed and unmanaged, you’re quite prone to struggling with things like eating disorders substance abuse because you’re trying to self-regulate.
And, um, I didn’t realise at the time that’s what I was doing. But. After. Uh, so I found yoga in rehab and it was so soul soothing and I fell in love with it. And I was like, oh my gosh. Like, it’s like all the pieces of me suddenly connected and I was whole. But then, um, I came out of rehab and then I started to try to fit in with the yoga scene.
And I, I’m pretty sure we started around the same time. Like, gosh, like 10, 15 years ago. The scene was quite different. And it was very much gymnastic or fantastical and it was all like, yeah, you, you remember? Yeah, before we were, once we had nervous systems. And so it was quite and I’m not like, you know, I’ve can’t, I don’t like going upside down.
I’m not like, come, don’t come from a gymnast background or anything like that at all. But it felt very much like a little bit mean girls like, oh, you can’t sit with us. And at the same time there was also, a heavy lean into veganism. You weren’t vegan or raw vegan or fruitarian. You were causing a lot of, you know, harm.
You weren’t a true yogi. You weren’t allowed to be in the room if you weren’t X, y, z. Now, obviously, like I’ve always like, had a very soft nature and real connection to nature where things come from. Like, um, you know, my mum’s side of the family, they’re all growers and gardeners. So I’ve always grown up around that deep connection to nature and understanding, I guess, our place in all of it.
And I’ve, uh, been quite like conscious of, yeah, like the food cycle and where things come from, including, you know, like our eggs and our meat, but the, yeah, the, the pressure to be like, I can only fit in with this world if I eat a certain way. And I, you know, I, I went all in. I had the dehydrator, I had everything.
And that’s not particularly healthy for somebody who’s had my background and history of eating issues, uh, to apply a new set of rules to yourself. And very quickly, again, I lost my cycle because I wasn’t eating for my body type and my body’s needs. Um, and that, again, absolutely no judgment to anyone that does choose a vegan or raw vegan or, you know, vegetarian lifestyle.
And your, the ethics and reasoning behind it. My personal belief is you can only do like, do true goodness in this world if you are okay. And if you are well and if you are happy, and particularly if somebody’s got a background like me of, of disordered eating, whether that comes from more wanting to look a certain way or this deep, I don’t know how to handle my anxiety, ADHD or emotions and I’m taking it out on myself ’cause I’ve got very little self-esteem.
If you have a background of disordered eating, actually one of the most harmful things you can do is apply a set of rules to yourself. And also if you have caused yourself harm or damage like that, your body needs a hug. It needs extra nourishment more than than anyone. And you need to maybe do things that maybe you eat in ways that you wouldn’t think you normally would because your body needs those extra things, like maybe some bone broth or some collagen or some organ meats.
Or maybe not. But I feel like to apply a set of rules, blanket to everybody isn’t necessarily it. It makes you more out of touch than in touch. And I know I’m probably going to upset a few people by having, having said that but I like, again, no judgment. I think just maybe taking a step away from rules and styles and labels and just having a little sit with yourself and being like, okay, like how do I truly feel about this?
What do I really need? Is there a way that if I need to be eating, you know, eggs and meat, et cetera. How can I be the most ethical I can be about it and still feel connected to some kind of food source or supporting local farmers. And to be honest with you, I know everyone worries about cost on that.
Like it’s actually not that different from the supermarket. But yeah, so I, I lost my cycle for a couple of years again of being quite a strict vegan because I felt like I had to be, ’cause yoga land was telling me that’s how I had to be and I just felt more and more disconnected from myself. And it’s so funny, like now being at the age I am eating in a way that nourishes my body and figuring it out that I actually feel really connected to my body.
So my cycle now is ever so funny. I’ll explain why I have a wall chart. I don’t have any apps or anything. Um, but I will again share quite a personal story that happened in recent years. Actually, no, it feels appropriate like you’ve asked me about my journey. Yeah. So it feels appropriate. Yeah.
Anyway, veganism, yoga land, realising that wasn’t working for me, then went through a very, very, very stressful period in my life. And again, was still disconnected, was still struggling slightly with, uh, substance abuse again, that had snuck back in feeling very overwhelmed. Um, and yeah, in a very, very stressful period.
Then I was just completely disconnected from my cycle, wasn’t tracking it. If it arrived, it arrived. Hello? Hi. How are you doing it? Sometimes I, I, there must have had months where it didn’t arrive. It was very irregular. I just found it. Something, it was like a, something on my list that I knew I needed to get round to looking into that.
Like, you know, when you’re like, oh, I need to call the doctor or the bank or book a dentist appointment. It was always one of those things that I was like, yeah, I should probably get to know my cycle, but I’ll push that to the side. ’cause there was always more to do. Busy stress, push, push, push. And, um, then I, I met and I fell in love with my partner and again, just wasn’t tracking anything, wasn’t keeping an eye on things.
And I just started, I thought what I thought was my period and it was very, very, very painful and it was going on quite a long time. And then it was, um, like spotting, um, and it lasted for weeks and weeks and weeks of this like, sort of. Yeah, just bleed. And I had heard urban legends of people having long base everything on an urban legend.
I had heard, uh, urban legends of like, you know, people sometimes getting long bleeds instead of going to the doctor because I have a little fear of the doctor after my sort of past, which I need to get over. But, um, instead of going to the doctor, I turned to voice notes between friends and was just like, oh yeah, it’s, it could be this, it could be that, like, could be fibroids, it could be.
And I knew I needed to get it checked out. And um, I actually was away for a weekend in Copenhagen with two friends and it was my birthday weekend and I was trying so hard to, hard to hold it all together. In Copenhagen, you, you cycle a lot. So we were on bikes for the entire weekend and, you know, I was having this extended bleed.
I was in so much pain, I was like blasting a smile all over my face. And then as soon as I was like on my own, I’d be like, doubled up in pain. But I didn’t wanna spoil their trip so I just was like, really, I don’t know how I held it together. But then on the Monday I was like, I can’t bear this anymore. I have to get over my fear and go to the doctor.
And I went. I remember it just felt like the longest appointment of my life because the doctor started to look more and more concerned and asked me to go and do a pregnancy test. And I was just so confused. Like it hadn’t even crossed my mind that that was something that could be occurring. And it was funny because he basically, yeah, he sat me down and he was like, you’re having a miscarriage.
And I’m quite sure that’s what you’re having. And you know, no pre-warning, just, and I just went into, you know, when you get news and you just go into that ice cold? Fear panic. I just remember just like my stomach dropping and like, it felt like the air had been sucked out of the room. ’cause it was just so confusing to me.
And then he was like, he looked at his watch, I remember it is so specifically looked at his watch and he was like, the, um, early pregnancy unit at the hospital is going to close very soon. You need to get over there, book yourself a taxi. And then he was like, I’m going to write up, um, so you can like go to the front of the queue and um, you know, like, you need to get seen today.
Um, because I’m, he was quite worried and he’d rather me be seen by that unit than go to A&E. Um, but then his printer wasn’t working. He was trying to write it down on a sheet of paper and his pen wasn’t working and it was just like a comedy sketch. And I was like. Oh, are you serious? Like, I could see the clock like ticking away and I knew that it was going to take me like half an hour to get over there and, uh, and it was school rush hour time and I was like, oh God.
But I made it there by the skin of my teeth and Yeah. Was diagnosed with a miscarriage and I was told to go home and ride it out, uh, which was, uh, I mean, I, I’ve never been in that situation before, so I didn’t know that maybe that wasn’t quite, uh, quite the way to handle it. And I also didn’t know what ride it out looked like.
Mm-hmm. So I given any, um, advice, so I, I, I went home and the bleeding was just getting heavier and heavier and heavier, and I just assumed that was what a miscarriage was because again, nobody tells you what you should be. Looking out for. And so, yeah, it got worse and worse and over the course of a couple of days, it was getting worse and worse and worse.
Uh, and I was kept going back and they were doing blood tests ’cause they were looking out for a hormone dip or hormone rise, I can’t remember. But they were looking, they were keeping an eye on, on something. But again, just go home, ride it out. Like, and I remember it had been five days by this point and it was Easter Saturday and my partner hadn’t left my side.
Uh, he was like, you know, like a guard dog. Um, and he hadn’t left my side, but I was. I’m not very good at being like, looked after and being asked for help. And so I was like, please go and see your friends. It’s Easter Saturday, like they’re having a party. Like, go and see them. I’ll be fine for a couple of hours.
Don’t worry about me. And when he left, just the bleeding got worse and worse and worse. Like, you know, I went to have a bath and it looked like Jaws and I was like, oh God, this is not good. And he must have had a spidey sense that something wasn’t okay. I don’t really know the next parts that happened, but he found me in a, in a pool of blood.
We got rushed to the hospital and it was a ectopic pregnancy, so that’s where the baby grows on the outside of the tube. And um, so it got misdiagnosed. I’ve, it’s funny because I’m really, I think it’s really important that I share this because I. People I didn’t know. You know, you only know what, you know.
I didn’t even know what an ectopic pregnancy was. I didn’t even know what the word meant. I just feel like it’s such an under spoken about thing, and it’s so isolating. It’s so lonely. You blame yourself, but it’s nobody’s fault. Like it’s, it’s just in the wrong place. And there’s, there’s an absolute heartbreak with that sentence just in the wrong place.
And you know that nothing else is wrong, just in the wrong place, and it will never be what it’s supposed to be. And that’s ever so sad in a way. Uh, so I think it’s really important to. Sort of share the detail on the awareness because if someone else is like if you are, you know, in a position like me where you’re diagnosed with miscarriage, just make sure they check because ruptured ectopic pregnancies are, I’ve since found out, um, super deadly that you can, that a lot of women lose their lives every year.
And why isn’t it spoken about enough? Um, and it was very sad. Like I, I got rushed into surgery immediately and you know, you get no, um, you get no ownership of your body when you’re in an emergency situation. And I woke up and they told me that they’d removed a tube and it was, I don’t think it’s quite hit me, but I remember feeling a massive sense of this loss and grievance for a part of me that I’d never connected with or appreciated.
I just remember being so struck by that. Obviously you get a lot of swirly wordy questions in your head being like, well, what does that mean for future conception? What does that mean? Am I only half a woman because I only have half of like my anatomy um, um, what does the future look like? What does even periods look like?
’cause if you got one tube, like what does this, what does this whole thing mean? And, um, it’s such a weird loss and grievance to have. ’cause you’re also grieving the loss of, you know, but a child that never could be. And you are also then grieving a loss of a tube, which sounds really strange, but that it was so pro, such a profound sadness that I still don’t have the words to vocalise how it feels.
And then it really inspired me to be like, I really got to understand and reconnect with this part of my body. Uh, I’ve really got to learn. Not just for potentially future having children, but just I’ve really abused that side of my body for years through eating disorders, substance abuse, through not caring, dismissing it like it doesn’t have to be as extreme as me.
Just seeing it as a pain in the ass. Mm-hmm. Period. Like, you know, the rhetoric we speak about our period is so negative. Mm. It is. So, oh, I’ve got my period. Oh, it must be my period. Something bad is happening. Oh, it’s my period. My skin is bad, everything’s going wrong. It’s my period. They’re grumpy.
It’s their period like it’s weird when actually it’s a sign of a vital healthy body that should be celebrated. And so now, so stupid. I have a sticker chart. I, I have a sticker chart and I put colorful fun stickers every month. I have a big high five with my partner when it is like, yeah, it’s here. And it’s become more of a celebration and I don’t know if it’s subconscious, psychological, but my periods have become a lot more pleasant.
And I don’t know if that’s because I take a little extra care. Like I don’t do anything extreme. I just like. It’s a lot of self forgiveness, like around the time, you know, no, like, just like, eat what you want. Don’t get mad at your skin when it breaks out. Just be like, you know, just kind of think it’s quite funny when you’re, you know, you’ve got that little period bloat and just be like patting it like you had your Christmas dinner.
But it is just, and just like nourishing it, like I lean quite heavily into Ayurveda because that massively helped me recover from my eating disorder. Understanding Ayurvedic principles and understanding that this is who I am and this is my type, uh, like, uh, my dosha. But when I say my type, I don’t just mean my physical type.
I mean, you know, my whole being type and understanding that there isn’t right, there isn’t wrong. There’s just in and out of balance. And that massively helped me out at that period of my life in recovery. And it’s now something I apply to, um, sort of my period, like nourishing herbs, warming teas that are really applicable.
A lot of like oil massage on the stomach using essential oils like geranium that are really suitable and just making a meal out of it, to be honest with you. Just making it into, you know, when you’re a kid and you used to make like perfumes out of flowers in the garden and like just turning it into like pixie angel fairy vibes now, the same with my period.
Just make an absolute meal out of it. It’s a chance to absolutely be like a princess and. Just, yeah, just do all of the things and not have to explain why I am taking an extra long bath or covered in oil or smell like a garden. It’s just like, this is what I do.
Le’Nise Brothers: Yeah.
Kat Pither: And I think that level of changing my attitude towards it has not only helped me feel more connected, more, more of a woman than I ever could feel, even though I’m down a tube not literally down a tube.
It’s funny. But, um, yeah, just, I think it, it is, it’s nice. And it’s also like there’s a sense of a little tiny quiet internal pride when I see my tracking on a sticker chart of just like, okay, it’s, I’m getting quite regular from years of turbulence. It like actually feels quite stable. And I think that stability is quietly rippled out into a quiet self knowing and self-confidence.
And, um, yeah, there’s quite, there’s, there’s a lot to be celebrated and I know it’s not like that. I don’t say that in ignorant, so I know it’s not like that for a lot of women. Uh, a lot of women go through such extreme pain and nausea and sickness and headaches and bloating and the whole shebang, but I think just finding a little celebration in, in your body and finding that little connection, or maybe not even celebration, maybe people aren’t there yet, but maybe just that little extra nurture, that little extra care that doesn’t need any explaining.
I think, I think that’s something we should have been taught long time ago.
Le’Nise Brothers: You’ve shared so much there. And firstly, thank you for being so open with your story and. It’s so interesting hearing this kind of this 180 that you’ve gone through from being hugely disconnected and kind of seeking external ways to reconnect with yourself to now being in this place where you’re celebrating your period and you’re celebrating, you know, this knowledge that you have with your body, this reconnection that you’re gaining, and it’s really interesting what you’re saying about this, the yoga and the Ayurveda side of it. Because you know, when you were talking about the veganism and the raw veganism.
I remember when I was doing my training and my, my teacher, he, we would have debates about it because at that time I was like, I had qualified as a nutritionist. So it was very much like, you don’t have to be a vegan or vegetarian to be a yoga teacher, you know, and we would talk about ahimsa and, you know, all of this.
And I just remember thinking like, I just really hope that people don’t take this to heart because it can be quite damaging if you’re eating in a way that doesn’t work for your body.
Kat Pither: I was, I was just going to say, it’s such a relief to be able to talk to you about it. Like, I feel like you were so progressive and to be able to, it’s very scary to have a point of view and be in a room full of people that are so dogmatic and strict in their worldviews.
And feel so isolated and feel so unable to express and you were so progressive and so ahead of your time. And it’s so funny as well, I feel like the, not just yoga land, but the internet doesn’t necessarily allow us to change our minds.
Le’Nise Brothers: Hmm.
Kat Pither: And I think that it is okay to change your mind. It is okay.
To everyone should feel safe and comfortable to express if, if they have had a shift and nobody at the same time. On the flip of that, nobody should feel entitled to tell others what to do with their bodies.
Le’Nise Brothers: Mm-hmm.
Kat Pither: I feel like there can be a coexistence, don’t get me wrong, like there is, the fact that we industrialised animals is pretty vile.
But there are so many great voices in the industry who really like, are sharing more about regenerative farming and where to source the products and, you know, and it doesn’t have to be much meat. I’m not talking about like meat at every single meal or just. Just en just enough if that’s what, if that’s what your body calls for.
And I feel like that’s the thing, you know, our microbiome is like a fingerprint.
Le’Nise Brothers: Mm-hmm.
Kat Pither: Everybody’s is so unique and so different, and what works for some people just doesn’t work for others. But the, the fact that you take this beautiful thing like yoga, which can give you so much freedom, which I found, you know, in, in the, in rehab, I found this sense of joy and freedom.
And then suddenly when you get deeper into it, there’s all these rules and there’s this judgment and there’s this pushing of, if you can’t do this pose, you’re not allowed to carry on with the sequence. You have to tap out of the class or the, you have to be able to do x, y, z and if you can’t do a headstand, then you’re not truly focused.
And it’s like, well actually I really don’t. I’m quite a disoriented person. I’ve got dyspraxia and I, uh, I really don’t love being up upside down. It makes me feel very like ungrounded. And that’s not to do with like not having focus, you know, I can meditate, uh, quite happily, you know, I can, I can do a lot of different things to find that focus, but upside down life isn’t for me.
And that must have been, ’cause I know you’ve been teaching yoga for a long time and that must have been quite, quite lonely to be a voice in a room having trained and spent, you know, a couple of years of your life, like learning about the science of nutrition and the discipline or like around that. And then to walk into a space and have someone tell you that it’s lentils or nothing, it is just like, that must have been so lonely for you.
Le’Nise Brothers: To be fair, I, when I did my training, I, my yoga teacher training, I was with a lot of South Americans and they were very much like, you just do your own thing. Even though the teacher, our teacher was very like coming from one place, they had this energy and I naturally gravitated towards them.
And I already had, you know, at that time I was in, in my thirties and I was very much of like, I know myself, I know my body and I know how I want to teach. And for me it’s, I’ve never really talked about this out loud, but , my body is my body and I. I think it’s like almost like a, being a teacher and looking the way I do, I think it’s really important for representation.
You know, like I have a very muscular body. I am not what you call, like, you know, you kind of see on Instagram, like these blonde stick thin and you know, Yogi doing, who are doing inversions. That’s never going to be me. Like, I don’t like inversions either. I can do them, but I like
Kat Pither: Cozy club. Let’s just have a cozy club and have a line down and just,
Le’Nise Brothers: yeah.
And um, but I really love when people come to me after class and they say, you know, like, I love coming to your class, seeing someone. Who looks like you and the vibe that you have in your classes. And I think that’s really important because yoga isn’t a monolith, it’s, it’s, you know, of course we have these principles that we need to follow.
But you know, you need to make them your own. And this is why yoga isn’t just Asana. And I would love to ask you more about your personal yoga practice and what parts of yoga do you lean on during, during tough times?
Kat Pither: So I just, oh gosh. Everything you’ve said, it just, it just hits, it really, really just hits.
I, I hate the way. That the internet has changed. Seeing, I mean, yoga was a practice designed for men, only men were allowed to do yoga originally. And you know, if you look at a lot of the, the poses and the anatomy, it was all designed for a teenage boys’ body. And yet we are constantly trying, the world tries to funnel us into labels, into shapes, into ideas.
And, you know, like a, I’ve got a gorgeous friend, Lucy Bishop, who’s a real advocate for moving in a bigger body, and she’s probably one of the strongest people I know. She’s super flexible. Does the splits, does acro and then you can get Yeah, like someone who’s of a smaller frame and you know. Like doing yoga in a g-string on a beach, but they, they might not have that body awareness or ability or they come from a background of maybe gymnasts and dance.
And again, no judgment. I think it’s amazing that you were able to move from such a young age, but some people, you know, never went to a gymnast class, but they maybe are missing that bridge. They just pop into the, the handstand. ’cause they’ve always, that’s, that’s like walking to them and it’s like, but where’s the pop?
And for somebody like me who spent probably most of my life with quite low self-esteem, never was never sporty, was never really that connected to my body and went quite an extreme way of disconnecting from my body. Dissociation and, you know, my, my eating issues, a lot of it relates from yeah, having undiagnosed ADHD where you were tend to dissociate and are quite disconnected anyway, especially if you don’t know you have it and you don’t really understand how to fit into a world that wants to box you up.
And, and from PTSD, uh, which meant that I just shut down and dissociated from my body. And when no one teaches you any skills that are right there for us. I mean, personally, I was having a conversation with somebody yesterday. I feel like what I do and what I teach probably needs a name that’s different from yoga.
Like, I feel like there’s space for a new word or a new label because I, you know. I’ve studied Ayurveda. I have a lot of friends that are like, uh, lineage teachers. I’ve spent time studying in different countries. I’m, I love learning from different disciplines, different cultures, different lineages, and weaving it all together.
But what I found and what I do, it’s hard because I don’t even think I’d call it yoga. I think I just. We live in a world that’s so wired, so on, it’s getting worse and worse and worse. With AI, it is just on overdrive. And I think what I do is just tend to my nervous system in ways that I know how to, my personal practice is so subtle and so slow, and it also can be found anywhere.
It can be found in other disciplines, but I suppose if I was to do what, you know, under the guise of yoga a practice, it would just, it’s a lot of self touch in, it’s a hand on heart, hand on different parts of the body. Just to remind you that you are here, a lot of play, a lot of playfulness, a lot of shapes that have no name, a lot of release, and a lot of softness.
I feel like I quite like to be slow and low to the ground because I feel like we live so much of our life up in our heads, up moving, pushing. And I really like that feeling of feeling really connected with different parts, even if it’s just your clavicle chest touching the floor, like a, you know, an upside down like pose where you’re lying on the, just feeling connected and having space and time and a moment for that.
And it is funny how the things you are seeking and become torturous. So if you are like really pushing, like I’ve gotta get the splits, I’ve gotta get the split, it becomes a different kind of practice. It becomes something that’s quite push, push, push, goal oriented. And that can lead to a lot of poor self-esteem and actually a lot of tightening up and a lot of, um, tightening up of the body.
’cause the body doesn’t feel safe tightening up of the nervous system, holding your breath. But actually, like, when I did find my splits and the funny thing about poses is that they’re already there in your body for a brief moment. And, and then they might go because stress might come into your life.
And I think all poses are fleeting. You know, you go through different stages in your body and, and you know, you might have children or you might be going through high stress or you might get really into running and different points of your body like will tighten up. But I think when I had the fleeting love affair with splits, that only came because my nervous system was really chill and I was actually doing yin I was doing like pliability and yin and it came through that. It didn’t come through pushing and doing flexibility training. And I was quite surprised. I suddenly found myself in the splits and I was like, oh. But it’s because there was no tension in my body. And it is funny. I think there’s, yeah, like I say, there’s definitely space for something new.
And it’s funny also backtracking a moment to what you said, how when you did your training, you were in your thirties and you knew yourself. And I think that is so beautiful. I think working in this industry for over, over a decade, having Yogi Bare, sorry for over, for nearly a decade and working in, in the space not just as a teacher.
I see a lot of people like getting into training because they like the idea of becoming a yoga teacher and that’s beautiful and they want to deepen their practice and that’s beautiful. But a lot of people are quite young and in their early twenties and might be quite impressionable to maybe ideas like we spoke about that are quite, uh, dogmatic.
And I also think that training to be a teacher is something that should be taken with great care. I feel like now it is almost treated like a holiday. Like, oh, I’ll go for two weeks and I come back and I’m a yoga teacher. And there’s not much support unless you pay extortion amounts of money to do more and more trainings, which actually can confuse your mind a wee bit because everybody’s got a different, every school’s got a different thought system and you have to be quite selective that you know, what you wanna sort of spend your time on and specialise in, or what your message is and what you’re trying to say and who you want to nourish.
And then, you know, sort of do trainings where you can gain ideas and insights to bolster what you know, rather than just doing training after training. Uh, but I feel like there’s, I mean, it’s very unregulated. Uh, I don’t, yeah, I know. Super unregulated the yoga industry training to be a teacher, and I think there’s an abrogation of responsibility.
A lot of people that come to you, like many of us who come to yoga, are quite vulnerable.
Le’Nise Brothers: Hmm.
Kat Pither: Uh, maybe we know it, maybe we don’t know it. And that can be physically vulnerable. Like, you know, your doctor said, oh, you, you need to do some yoga because you are highly stressed, or your heart has a lot of pressure on it.
Or, you know, you are, you’ve got injuries coming out, left, right, centre, your back, whatnot. And I think that, or they can be emotionally vulnerable and tender, mentally vulnerable and. I think that, yeah, a lot of, a lot of teachers just, it doesn’t feel like it’s embodied. The training. It feels like just going through the motions, you know, quote, spouting a couple of Rumi quotes and, uh, Bob’s, your uncle got a playlist that will few tear jerks on it, that’ll do it.
And it’s just not like, I think that the trainings should be longer, they should be regulated. There should be like a real, like, there should be also more exams to be able to pass.
Le’Nise Brothers: Mm-hmm.
Kat Pither: Um, if you look at Pilates, like, obviously Pilates unfortunately is going through similar to Reregulation because of reformer being so popular.
All of a sudden, studios are seeing it as a big money maker. People are going on like a weekend reformer training coming back as a reformer teacher, whereas there’s so. It’s very interesting. Pilates was actually designed by Joseph Pilates, who’s a boxer. But um, and then went into the war as a medic, which is why the reformer beds look the way they do.
’cause he actually got, um, dishonourably discharged from the war because he used to take apart the beds and make his own rehab machines. Uh, and that’s why reformers look all full of the springs and like, like they do, which I just find endlessly fascinating. But his methodology and classical Pilates, it’s like training to be a ballerina.
It’s years and years and years of study and you know, you have to do classical before you can then go into reformer, before you can then go into some of the other sort of props that they have. And it’s something I would love to do at some stage in my life because it is so anatomy focused. But I know that I’d have to carve out a couple of years to do it and do it justice. And it’s so funny, it’s like, why isn’t it the same with yoga? Why, why can we just train so quickly and then be so responsible for people and their bodies and their minds? And yeah, I, it’s such an interesting one, but I know didn’t even answer the question I ask. Yeah.
Le’Nise Brothers: I, I think what you’re saying is so interesting because when I think about when I’m teaching, whether it’s yin, whether it’s vinyasa, whether it’s prenatal, I really think about my responsibility in holding the space. Mm-hmm. And that’s a kind of emotional responsibility, but it’s also a physical responsibility because you see people from beginners coming into dynamic Vinyasa classes and you think you really shouldn’t be in this class. But I never say leave. I always say, you know, be really aware.
I’ll give lots of verbal instructions, I’ll demonstrate as much as I can, but be aware of your body. And even things like breathing and the pranayama and like taking people in and out of Shavasana. I really. I really like consider that like a really great responsibility because people are trusting you.
They’re trusting you physically, like with their eyes closed and you’re holding that space for them, but they’re trusting you with their bodies, that you are trained enough and you have enough experience not to, not to, for them not to get injured.
Kat Pither: Yeah.
Le’Nise Brothers: And you know, thinking about the work that you do and Well, I wanna just come back to what you said earlier because you talked a lot about.
Having low self-esteem, and perhaps you might say this isn’t connected, but you have two businesses, two successful businesses, and so on the surface, and like I know this is just outside looking in, I would never think, oh my gosh, like this is a lady who has low self-esteem. So when you said that, I was very surprised.
But you have two successful businesses. You have a yoga mat business, Yogi Bare and you now also have a magnesium business, Healthy Metal. So can we just briefly talk a little bit about those because I just, I want to be able to talk about this. We ha we don’t have much time left, but I do want to touch on it.
Kat Pither: It’s so funny, like, uh, yeah, I, I do have very low self-esteem and low confidence and it’s, it is interesting because. I guess I only see the behind the scenes. I only see the chaos. I mean, Healthy Metal’s slightly different because I have, uh, lovely co-founders in that. So I’m not, I’m not flying solo, but Yogi Bare’s been my, um, baby for a very, very long time.
Um, it’s coming up like over eight years. It’s a real journey. Um, I will be starting to share more of the journey and I think it will probably, um, enlighten a little bit about confidence. It’s, uh, it’s been a really interesting journey. Yeah, really interesting journey. I, I let some people into the business that I shouldn’t have let in that, um, really eroded and erased my confidence.
And I realise now that that was intentional because they, they wanted to take the business. But thing with Yogi Barry is that I’ve blessing and a curse. My heart is embedded in Yogi Bare. There’s a piece of me in the business. And when you put your heart out there so freely and so openly, and it’s there for the taking it’s quite a vulnerable place to be in.
I never want to let anyone down it, to me it’s more than, um, it’s more than the product. It’s, it’s a feeling and a feeling has to be authentic. I think that’s what maybe in my eyes separates us from maybe other yoga equipment brands is because there. Yeah, there, there’s a, there’s a soul in there. It’s not about the products.
Like, yeah, the products are great, the products are really good, but, um, it’s not, it’s not about that. Like, it is anyone can make a product. It’s not hard. But I think I started this brand because I felt so uncomfortable in the yoga space. Like I didn’t belong. And I was like, there was two points of disconnection.
There was, why are we practicing on giant pieces of plastic that are really unethical? And then the other point of disconnection was, why do all brands make me feel awful? Why do all brands use other people’s, you know, prey into our self-esteem and self value and self-worth and dangle the carrot of, well, if you just buy this, you might be a little bit better.
You might deserve to be here or belong here, or you might look a certain way and it never works. I mean. There’s always the new, new product, the next thing they launch. And that’ll get you a little bit closer, but it never does. It actually gets you 10 steps backwards. And yeah, you’re there. Like, like I was saying, my, my heart’s on the line, like some people know the story.
Some people don’t know the story. Some people don’t realise there’s a, you know, a just a person behind the brand. Um, some people assume it’s a lot bigger than it is. And I, you know, I read every comment, I read every message that comes into our customer service. You’re pretty much, I’d say about 99% of the touch points you’re getting me.
And I’m involved in every single step of the way. And it, it hurts to see when somebody’s disappointed, um, because I see the community as like, you know, family or friends. And if somebody’s order’s delayed or something’s gone a bit awry, like it breaks my heart and I care that much that I want to, you know, make them happy and figure out how I can, uh, can solve it.
But of course, being that exposed, you absorb everything like a wee little sponge and the good, the bad, and the ugly. And I think also with ADHD, you tend to maybe not be very boundaried. Uh, I, I still really struggle with, with boundaries. I want to help everybody and I want to be there for everybody.
Uh, and I realise I’ve been pouring from an empty cup for the past years, and it’s, it’s okay to say that I started to, uh, use Yogi Bare almost like my, my notes app on my phone. Probably like many people’s is just full of, like thoughts that I’m having constantly throughout the day and just writing little nuggets down.
I’ve started to share those on Yogi Bare, and it’s like very much the opposite to what you’re seeing in the sexy yoga industry and all the yoga brands with the athletic wear and all of the campaigns that are all shiny and sprayed on sweat. And then there’s me just going like, yeah, I’m just really wobbly today, is anybody else?
And, but I think that’s what makes it real. And I, I’m finding it so fun to finally get my voice back. I, you know, I don’t, I tried to maybe like be a bit more polished. I’m not polished, and I felt inauthentic and clunky trying to be polished. So I’m just bringing it back to a little bit more, more scrappiness.
And as I find my voice, the right people will find us and just refind my confidence. There’s nothing worse than an inauthentic to feel like you’ve lost your voice. You’re not able to express yourself. And I think that really took away a lot of self esteem. And I think just leaning into the fact that no matter what happens with Yogi Bare, even though we’ve been for a lot of like tough times and vulnerabilities and there’s a lot of competitors, like no one can do it like Yogi Bare because there’s real people behind it.
Not just my voice, but when we share other people’s voices and share other people’s stories, like that’s real. You can’t fake that. And I think I’m beginning to realise how important that is, and it’s helping me find my feet again.
Le’Nise Brothers: I love that. I love that authenticity and that kind of just being really true to yourself.
And I definitely feel that when I read your posts and I see what you post on Yogi Bare, I just, I feel that, and I think that’s what people crave. They crave authenticity. Especially now when you see people using AI and you’re not sure is this real, is this not? And when you see people like just being true and, you know, when they use, like, that’s why I love TikTok so much is because you see, of course there’s issues with it, but people just speaking into the camera and just, you know, being real.
I, I love that. So what is the one thought that you want to leave people with today?
Kat Pither: I think, I think instead of looking outwards. Like getting to know inwards. I think just finding celebration and joy in your body. I know the world is probably going to tell you all the things that are, is wrong with your body.
And if you’re like me, I struggle with, um, like saying I’m really proud of that because I confuse like, feeling proud with arrogance and it’s actually not arrogant to enjoy aspects of yourself, to love yourself. And maybe that’s just starting small. Maybe that’s just putting moisturiser or oil on your skin and just like learning to feel, oh yeah, this, my, my arm’s really soft and isn’t that nice.
And learning to not be afraid to. Hold your hand on your heart and just be like, oh, this is cool. This is what my heartbeat feels like. And just those little subtle things rather than the world that’s going to tell you, get a six pack, do this, push harder, you got to be able to do this, drink your matcha lattes, blah, blah, blah.
It’s just like, it is all, that’s not going to be absorbed in if you’re not doing those little subtle things. And just like, we only get one shot at this and it’s not, I’ve wasted a lot of time, a lot of money, a lot of energy, and we only get one chance to be here. And also just remembering that we can just turn our phones off, listen to anyone else, and yeah, just, just to really just enjoy the experience of living in a body. And as you do so, there’ll be a bit of softness and a bit of kindness comes, and you might find the things that you’re seeking will even not matter anymore, or just happen as a byproduct of you feeling safe and crazy and calm in yourself.
So, yeah. What about you?
Le’Nise Brothers: Yeah, I mean, there’s there’s so much wisdom in what you’ve shared, and I think that people should, if you’re not following Kat already, you should definitely do so. Where can people get in touch with you?
Kat Pither: Well, like I say, Yogi Bare, when I love it when people like write little comments and like see if what captions are resonating, if people are feeling wobbly or what they want me to talk about, like introversion or whatnot.
Um, and like all, all of that, like I’ve never, you know, that account’s never been wrong by anyone other than me. So I see every dm, every tag, every comment. Um, and then also my personal is on the Yogi Bare bio What’s Good Kat? And, uh, I share a lot more like little diary notes. I write a lot of poetry and do a lot of spoken words, so if you like creative stuff and silly stuff, then that one’s a little bit more silly.
It’s not very yoga-y. So if people are like expecting a super duper yogi stuff because of Yogi Bare, it is more, that’s more like soft girl central.
Le’Nise Brothers: No, but , it’s real, it’s authentic. And whenever you, I see your stories or your posts pop up. I, it’s what’s good Kat? And I think, yeah. What’s good Kat?
Kat Pither: I don’t know why it’s that. I think it’s because when I, I was using Yogi Bare and then I was like, oh, I just want a place to express myself. Like I’m not just Yogi Bare. I want somewhere where I can like, share a bit more of me. And that I immediately like did my, you know, at name as oh, Yogi Bare Kat.
And I was like, still Yogi Bare Kat. Because like sometimes when you call someone you’re like, oh, it’s Yogi Bare Kat, how are you doing? And I’m just like, no. And then I was like, I wanna use this as a little place to be like, what’s good? Like, what’s good in music? I saw this band. What’s, what’s good? What are you reading?
Like. Yeah, so that’s what I have no idea why it is that, and now it’s stuck and it’s too late to change it.
Le’Nise Brothers: Yeah. No, but I think it, it works. It’s really cool.
Kat Pither: Oh yeah.
Le’Nise Brothers: Thank you so much for coming onto the show today. Thank you for sharing your story. I think, you know, any time anyone opens up about something that is so personal it, it helps other people share and it plants the seeds that it’s okay to talk about these things.
So thank you so much.
Kat Pither: I hope so. I hope so. I just, I think my mission on the planet is just to make people feel safe. I feel like I, I’m going to go through all the, uh, like the guinea pig for life and then share and report back and be like, don’t make the same mistakes as Kat.