I’m so pleased to speak to Dr Joyce Omatseye, a UK-based medical doctor, health advocate and digital health innovator on today’s episode of Period Story podcast.
In this episode, Dr Joyce shares:
- Why it’s important that both girls and boys are educated about periods
- Cultural differences around talking about menstrual health between the UK and Nigeria
- What led to her launching her health events organisation Ara Nini Health
- How creating safe spaces for discussions on fertility, reproductive health and fertility has opened conversations across multiple generations of women
- What it means to be a Black female doctor in the UK
- How she advocates for her patients
- Her work with WHO Fides to combat misinformation in global health and why we need to be aware of what we’re consuming online
- How to be prepared for conversations with your doctor
- And of course, the story of her first period
Dr Joyce says that we should never be afraid to ask the questions we need to in a doctor’s appointment and if you feel you’re not being listened to, ask for a second opinion. She says that there’s no doctor that should feel offended by you asking for a second opinion.
Thank you, Dr Joyce!
Get in touch with Dr Joyce:
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SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Le’Nise Brothers: Thank you so much for coming onto the show today, Dr. Joyce. I’m really excited to speak to you and hear about your journey. You’ve just passed your final exam, complete your medical training, which is super exciting. But first let’s talk about the story of your first period.
Dr Joyce Omatseye: Yeah. Oh my God.
I don’t know. I actually remember this story so well and I’m so glad I do because now my work is all about periods and women’s health. But I remember that I was actually in Texas with my cousin, so we went on family holiday and my parents were meant to meet us after and for a week, two weeks that we were there, we were waiting for a water park like we were going to, I think it was called Schlitterbahn Waterpark.
I can’t remember the actual name, but it was just water Park and we were so excited and on the day that we were meant to go for, we were getting ready, went to use the toilet, and my period had started. And I’m not going to lie, my first experience with my period was actually me feeling so disappointed.
So I was really kind of upset that I was like, no, because I have my period, I can’t swim, I can’t go to the water park. Um, so that was, that was kind of the story around my first period. And I remember calling my mom and then just being like, mom, my period started, you’re not here. Because she had had conversations before, so I knew, ’cause a lot of my friends had started their periods before I had started mine.
So I knew at some point I would get a period. But I think it just came at, it felt like it came at the wrong time for me. But after I spoke to my mom, it felt I felt much better. Still went to the water park. I think I tried to see if I could put a tampon in, but that’s a different story. It didn’t work.
I didn’t know my, I didn’t know how to do that. So it still went, but it wasn’t a different type of experience.
Le’Nise Brothers: And after your initial disappointment that you got your period and you were so excited to go to the waterpark and you know, these early stories of like water and periods, they just seemed to be so just traumatic.
What was your experience of your period then, like as you moved through your teenage years?
Dr Joyce Omatseye: Yeah, so I think obviously after that initial period, my mom was very, I think also ’cause I was so like emotional about my first period, even though I said I was prepared that I was coming. After that, I think I had a decent relationship with my periods ’cause it wasn’t too heavy and it wasn’t too painful. Um, even though, which we, we can speak about later, but there, that’s something I was definitely scared of because when I went to school in Nigeria, we had lots of girls older than us, you know, when we were in boarding school and things.
So I would get really worried about having a period and really worried about it being so painful. But I had a much better relationship with my period and knowing when it was coming. But I think back then we weren’t doing, there were no apps, so there was nothing like tracking your period. There was nothing like that.
So it was just kind of like, oh, surprise, you’re here. What am I doing? I hope I don’t have anything that’s going to disrupt me with. And again, I grew up in Nigeria, so I think it was just a completely different time and in terms of the conversations that were had around it. It wasn’t something that, it was like, you’re on your period.
Yay. This is what you do. You would be in school, your period would start, you would hide your pads. It still kind of felt like that, like nothing to really talk too much about. But at home I felt like. My, you know, my mom was like, you’re a woman now. This is what happens. And I’m like, okay, great.
But it, the overall society feel around periods and all of that didn’t feel like that. It didn’t feel like, kind of a safe space to talk about. Yeah, I can’t really remember having any conversations in school about our periods and what they mean and, and I mean periods and what they mean. Yes, in biology class, but in terms of heavy periods, how to manage things like that.
I can’t remember clearly having that, those conversations.
Le’Nise Brothers: That’s so interesting that you mentioning biology class with my son is he’s, uh, 11 and in year seven and he has his end of year exams at the moment. And for biology, one of the things that he’s learning about is the menstrual cycle and Okay, I can help you with that.
Dr Joyce Omatseye: Yeah, I can actually help you with this. I know everything.
Le’Nise Brothers: And uh, it’s just so interesting. We were doing these quizzes and I was like, okay read out the question and you tell me what they answer. Yeah. And he got all of them right. And I said I am amazed. And he said, well, I do hear your conversations. I hear what you’re saying.
Dr Joyce Omatseye: See why that’s so important. Because I think it’s different when they tell you, when it’s like, okay to pass your exams for you to understand where’s, what’s going on. ’cause a lot of people are gonna cram that, get that knowledge in and not really absorb it. But he’s probably around you where you’re talking about periods so much.
So now it’s like, ah, I totally understand. My mom speaks about periods. I get why that makes sense. And so it is really important to have those conversations again, not just with girls, but with boys as well. Yeah. Whereas I guess I said about the hiding your pads and hiding on your period, it just so that the boys don’t know you on your period.
Like it was more around that rather than being ashamed to speak to girls necessarily about periods. So it’s really interesting.
Le’Nise Brothers: Talking a little bit about cultural differences, so
Dr Joyce Omatseye: mm-hmm.
Le’Nise Brothers: Growing up in Nigeria and then now you’re working in the UK. Can you say more about those cultural differences?
Because I think that like you gave the impression that the UK is probably more open, but I’m not sure if it if it is.
Dr Joyce Omatseye: Yeah, so I think when it comes to women’s health, I think globally there is so much that actually needs to be done in terms of conversations. And I think my unique experience, which I’m so grateful for, is the fact that I’ve lived in Nigeria.
I’ve been able to experience it completely different like it’s my culture and what it’s like growing up in a different in in, in Nigeria. And then coming to the UK in my more adult teenager years and seeing how that conversation changes and then being a doctor where I’m dealing with patients that are, you know, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 50, 60, 20 but still being able to go back to Nigeria and speak to again, women across so just comparing and contrasting their experiences, I would say that. Now in general, there’s more conversations with the UK and Nigeria, I would say that. But when I was growing up as the taboo around periods, women’s health conditions, I didn’t know about a heavy period like, oh, your period can be heavy.
I didn’t know that painful periods were not normal. Okay. And I remember very clearly, and there was a girl that was older than us, I wouldn’t say her name, but I remember every time she would be in her period, I was year seven and she was in like year 10 or year 11, we would all be looking at her and feeling so bad, like, is this what is coming?
Is this, and everyone would just be like, no, she’s fine. It’s normal. That’s just how her periods are. So I just feel like growing up in Nigeria there was less of a, here you have sex education, you have, um, you have classes that are built into conversations that are built outside the classroom, outside the curriculum, around your periods and women’s health.
I didn’t necessarily, we didn’t have that growing up in Nigeria. And again, things may have changed and I think things are changing where we’re having these open conversations, but there’s still so much that needs to be done. And we’re not just talking about, okay, you get a period and we’re not just talking about ’cause I think the conversations, especially growing up was do not touch a boy because you’ll be pregnant. That’s more like, it’s more fear. It’s more this is a bad thing to do, rather than actually, let’s understand your bodies and this is what happened with your bodies and you need to be comfortable with it and you need to be able to know what’s normal so that if anything changes, then we know how to, that type of conversation didn’t happen and that’s why I do a lot of work within that at right now.
Um, because what I found is that a lot of my friends that had gone through universities, have been in the top universities, and first, and I have great jobs, and even my aunties, there’s so many, so many things we didn’t know and we’re already not 25 and they’re already fifties and they’ve already had babies and we’re asking questions that really should have been taught or should have been spoken about in an open manner since when we were younger.
So I would say yes, I don’t think the UK is necessarily there yet, but if I compare our experiences, there is so much taboo talking about things like this and there’s a lot of fear mongering in our culture around health and around periods and pregnancy and boys and girls. And I think it’s about how we start changing that conversation as well.
And also, there’s a lot to talk about in those topics, but I would say it, it’s definitely. There’s definitely a huge difference and it wasn’t something that was openly talked about. My mom did a good job, uh, around like, hi, let’s talk about the birds and the bees. I remember being so shy every time she would bring it up, I would be like, I don’t wanna talk about it.
I don’t know. This is so awkward. But I think she made an effort to, made a big effort to make sure that I was educated and I was aware and I wasn’t just learning about it in biology class for an exam. I was learning about it in conversation with my mom, which I thought was really important.
Le’Nise Brothers: Were your friends having a similar experience?
Dr Joyce Omatseye: Now I don’t actually think a lot of my friends had conversations with their parents, but again, that’s not something that we spoke about, so it’s not something that we necessarily spoke about. Like, oh, has your mom spoken to you about this? It wasn’t just, it is just when your period comes, you say, I’m on my period, or I have my tummy pain.
You go to the sick bay and then once it’s out, we don’t talk about, we just don’t talk about it. Whereas now, because I’m the doctor of the group. Everyone feels comfortable speaking about their periods. Everyone feels more comfortable coming to me and talking about what concerns that they may have, and so that’s why now it’s like, it’s literally my mission to make these conversations so normal in the safest of spaces.
It’s like almost bringing it into where you would take your mom to like bring your mom for your brunch. Yeah. And let’s about periods together. Because I also realised, I think one of the events I organised, I learned about new things from my mom because she also felt comfortable. ‘Cause it’s, if conversations come up, then they can say, oh actually I had this as well and I had this as well.
But if you’re not naturally having those conversations, it may never come up. You just tick the box of the period happened. It stopped, now let me move on. But I think, yeah, the, there was a lot of. Or lack there of, of conversation around periods.
Le’Nise Brothers: Yeah. What you said there about having conversations with your mom and then finding out new things.
Something similar happened to me where I retrained as a nutritionist and then started getting into this specialism, and then I told my mom, oh yeah, I definitely, I’m gonna specialse in women’s health and periods and all of that. And then she was like, oh yeah, well, did you know that I had fibroids?
And I was like,
Dr Joyce Omatseye: you think my mom told me she had fibroids when I was like.
Le’Nise Brothers: I know because all I knew is that she had had a hysterectomy. Yeah. And I just remember this time where she was really unwell. I knew that she had really heavy, really painful periods. It turns out she had this fibroid that was like the size of a grapefruit.
Oh. And they told her that she, the only option was to have, this is in the nineties, that to have a hysterectomy. And she told me this and I was like, oh. Well, I mean, I wish you had told me this like much earlier because I thank God I don’t have fibroids myself, but I did have really heavy periods and all of that and, but anyway, it’s just nice that when you have these conversations and you’re really open that like it just plants the seed.
Dr Joyce Omatseye: It does.
Le’Nise Brothers: I think this really leads really nicely into this work that you’re doing in this space where you have, you’ve founded a, an organisation which is really focused on creating safe spaces for discussions on fertility, reproductive health and mental wellbeing. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit more about this and also just to kind of continue the, the thread of cultural differences.
Do you notice any difference in the kind of questions that you get asked in the UK compared to in Nigeria and in Ghana?
Dr Joyce Omatseye: Yeah, so my organisation’s called Ara Nini Health. So Ara Nini means good health in Itsekiri it’s one of the tribes I’m from in Nigeria. And to be honest with you, this wasn’t, it wasn’t meant to be a thing, it was meant to be a one-off event, um, because as I said earlier a lot of people had found that I was as I was a doctor and as I was sharing more about, you know, online and health education, I felt like more people felt more comfortable speaking to me, who are my friends, right? And even my aunties. And I realised, I was like, mom, there actually isn’t much. Like, I’m lucky I have you.
And actually, because I’m the doctor, I’m, I’m actually comfortable asking uncomfortable questions and no one feels weird because I can say, I can ask any question. They’re like, ah, she’s the doctor. She’s finding that out. But other people still don’t have that, they don’t have the, I don’t need to say guts, but to, to kind of just to ask the those questions. So I remember speaking to my mom and I was like, you look, we’re coming back for Christmas. I know I don’t have enough time, but I think I would like to do a small event with is my friends and your friends and I just would like to do a one-off, um, women’s health talk.
And she was like, yeah, go. Go for it. And before that happened in December, I had taken a year out of my training and I went back to Nigeria. And this is where I think it triggered a lot because I had, that’s when I started speaking more to my aunties and they would ask me questions and I asked my, my auntie who owned a salon, if I could give a talk to the ladies that worked in the salon, because that’s a salon that I go to all the time.
They know me, they’ve known me for years. And she was talking about maybe giving, doing cervical screening for the ladies there. So I said, let me do my first ever talk. And it was really great. Like these are ladies that had babies, but they didn’t know how to check their breasts. They didn’t know what a cervix was, which I understand why they didn’t know what a cervix was because we’re not taught a cervix.
We’re taught vagina, we’re taught the fallopian tubes, ovaries, and the womb. No one actually spoke about the cervix. So when you’re telling them to go for cervical screening, they didn’t understand. Obviously no, we, you won’t, most people didn’t understand what you mean by cervical screening. You have to break that down.
So, because that happened, I think around April. In December, I was like, oh, let’s just do the one-off event. And my mom was like, okay, fine. If you, if you want to, I’ll, I definitely have friends. I was like, 20 friends will come. And I decided to just come up with a name and do like a page. So it’s not like Joyce is organising, it’s inviting you.
And we put tickets up and within three days we had a hundred and something women sign up. A hundred and something women in Nigeria sign up for a topic that just says, let’s talk about women’s health. That’s all. It wasn’t anything fancy. And on the day we had over a hundred ladies there and it was incredible.
We had the older generation in front and we, I’m, when I say older generation, I’m sure they’re, my aunties are in their fifties and sixties. I don’t think they’re old. Right. And we had the younger generation at the back and the older generation didn’t mind putting their hand up and saying this is my experience.
And the younger generation had questions and papers and it was actually incredible because that was the first time I’ve ever said, period out loud on a microphone, or even heard that out loud on a microphone. And after that one-off event, then they were like, when is the next event? When are we doing this again?
And I was like, well, it was only meant to be one thing. And since then we’ve been able to look for ways to incorporate. I know everyone’s doing like Pilates now, but that was one of the first events we were like, we’re going to do fitness and ’cause Pilates was, was coming in then. So it’s like, how do I attract you to come in, want you to come for something, and then speak to you about what’s important.
So I try and do events that are curated around experiences that women actually want to be in. So you want to go for Pilates with your friends, you want to go for brunch with your mom, you want to go for a really nice dinner, but we’re gonna speak about the topics that really matter. And luckily it’s been, we’ve been only two years, but we’ve had over 18 events.
We’ve had over 18, 17 events across London, Lagos, and Accra, and it’s really been incredible. And to be honest with you, when you ask me what questions are different, it’s actually very much similar. It’s actually similar in terms of what people ask. They ask at their, about their periods, they ask about fibroids.
They want to know about what painful periods mean and what that could mean. They ask about their general wellbeing, um, a lot about like skin health. It’s actually very much women, uh, women globally. It’s really, really interesting. But there’s nothing in I think it’s more maybe generational. Like what age groups?
So age groups will talk about different things. Like, uh, we had a fertility dinner recently that was more late twenties, early thirties, late thirties that came in. When we have our Pilates, we have mostly from our 20 year olds and above. So when we have our brunches. We have the, from 20 to 60, we even had one, a grandma come for the last one and it was really incredible to see three generations and she took the microphone and she said.
She was so glad to be in that space because she never had that throughout her 80 something years of life. And so the fact that she could even come in and contribute and tell us about her own journey, um, even though she was the only 80-year-old, there was so incredible to see three generations, eighties, fifties and the twenties and thirties.
And recently I had a Pilates event and I took my 12-year-old cousin. 13-year-old cousin to it. Um, and it was on skincare and when she got back she was like, mom, do you check your breasts? Have you checked your breasts today? And I was like, that’s exactly what we want you to feel comfortable with, saying breasts and making sure your mom knows she’s checked her breasts and making sure your mom knows that that’s important and you learning how to check your breasts early on as well.
So it’s really been an incredible journey so far. And I feel like there’s still so much to do. Yeah. There’s still so much to do. But I think we need to start bringing, I just want to make these conversations normal, and I want women to come in and feel like safe and loved and just relaxed. And then we can talk about the serious stuff.
Because what I find, especially with Black women and Black and brown women, is we only learn about our health when we’re panicking in the GP practice. And I’ve been a patient. Panicking as a doctor in the GP practice, so I know how hard it can be being on the other side. And so my main thing is like just teaching people on how to advocate for themselves and just basic knowledge.
And then we can start building on those knowledge blocks.
Le’Nise Brothers: Say a little bit more about that because you finished all of your medical training.
Dr Joyce Omatseye: Yeah.
Le’Nise Brothers: 12 years. 12 year journey. Uh, you must feel incredible right now.
Dr Joyce Omatseye: Right?
Le’Nise Brothers: And you are a Black female doctor in the UK. Say a little bit more about what you, what it means to be a Black female doctor in the UK.
Yeah. And the other side of it, which is Black female patients seeing someone that looks like them.
Dr Joyce Omatseye: Yeah, and I can’t say how important it is that we have Black doctors. We have brown doctors that patients see people that look like them because I see the effects. Do you know how many times my patient has walked in and they’ve been like hi. They’re excited and I’m like, I know, I know. Or they, or we have the consultation, we finish and they always kind of give that like, don’t change. Thank you for being here. Just because they’re just excited that they see someone that looks like them, that will probably understand more about them.
And there’s so many times. Where I’ve had to advocate for my patients knowing fully well that she has a Nigerian accent. She’s not aggressive, she’s actually not being aggressive right now. She’s stating how she feels, but because she has this accent, you think she’s being aggressive? Or one of my other patients that felt so comfortable saying, you know what, doctor?
Can I take off my wig? I’m like, yeah, take off your wig ’cause we’re going to be doing some manoeuvres. Having that level of peace and relaxation and knowing that your doctor will understand or will listen because they under they have lived that experience is really important and I found that my patients don’t hold back in saying, I’m so glad I can see you here and I’m so glad you are here.
And I think for me as a Black doctor, it’s also important for me to understand that Black women are disadvantaged like we are affected in a very, we have one of the poorest outcomes when we talk about childbirth, the fact that we’re four times more likely to die than our white counterparts. It’s really scary.
This doesn’t matter how educated you are, how much knowledge you feel like you have, whether you are the doctor or not. The experiences I’ve heard from actual doctors who are obstetricians and gynaecologists also go through within a system is actually really scary. So for me, it’s actually my role to sit down as someone who’s almost on the inside to be able to like, okay, I see the problems. I see the issues that may be having, I see the systemic issues that, you know are Here, how do I also be a bridge to be able to be like, this is how you need to navigate, this is how you need to advocate for yourself. Because if you do not say this, if you do not come in and express or keep those symptoms, so I know and I can match it up, it may be hard for me to understand.
So I think for me it’s important that I not only a doctor to be able understand how a system works and understand what our struggles as doctor and healthcare professionals are to be able to also be a Black woman for my friends, my family, my community, and wider to be able to say, look as women as well I know it’s not easy. But there’s certain things that we have to now do to make sure that we’re advocating for ourselves and we’re making our voices heard. So my patients that, especially who are Black, especially when I get the Black, my Black aunt aunties, they’re all like, Hey, my daughter, okay, I’m praying for you.
And I’m, I’m so grateful. And it gives you so much more purpose in life. And I think for me as well, I never, I want to be able to still go back to Nigeria and go back to not only Nigeria. I go back to Africa in whole and actually make a difference, not just in the UK. Like, that’s so important to me because I grew up in Nigeria.
The reason why I wanted to do medicine was because of my doctors and the experiences I’ve seen in Nigeria. And yeah, there’s just so much work that needs to be done everywhere. And there’s just, for me, that’s what makes me, I feel like I want to be more than a doctor because there’s so much more that has to be done past me just being med, doing medicine.
So it’s been 12 years. Six years of medical school, six years of being a doctor. Can’t believe I’m finally at the end of training. But I think this is almost the beginning of another journey of figuring out how do we make that impact? Like how do we, you know, get more people together and work with other people.
Because the, the mission is too big to do by yourself, right? Mm-hmm. Um, so it’s really important for representation matters so much, and I think especially now. Women need to feel that their doctors are listening and their doctors understand. And to be honest with you, unless you know, people can understand and can be educated, I understand.
But you need to have healthcare professionals that also look like you, that understand your culture and can also educate their peers and be like, no, this is what she’s trying to say here. This is what we mean. You need to understand her anxiety around this because so if we’re not in those species, then who’s gonna be thinking about us?
So that’s why it’s really, it’s like medicine is not easy. The journey’s not easy. The systems are not easy, but I’m, my motivation comes way more than just my clinic or like the four clinic goals. There’s so much more that we have to do and I feel like I have to do.
Le’Nise Brothers: So you mentioned something really interesting there around that example of the, your patient who had a Nigerian accent and
Dr Joyce Omatseye: Yeah.
Le’Nise Brothers: She was speaking to another doctor, another healthcare professional. Yeah. Who thought that she was being aggressive. So you had to advocate on her, her behalf.
Dr Joyce Omatseye: Yep.
Le’Nise Brothers: Can you say a little bit more about having to advocate on behalf of patients or other doctors, but also any kind of educating that you’ve had to do to fellow doctors and fellow medical professionals?
Because we know that, you know, there is some myths that still persist, you know, like, yeah. Black people and pain. Can you say a bit more about that?
Dr Joyce Omatseye: Yeah, I think there’s still a long way to go. ‘Cause there those myths, like Black people and pain and Black people don’t feel as much pain.
And there, there’s so many myths out there. And to be honest with you, I think there are still people that believe the, these things. Um, and I think for me what I always say my superpower is, and every doctor’s superpower should be, is listening. And I felt like, for example, in that situation.
Nobody was I was standing, so I was working and hearing the conversation. ’cause I, it, it wasn’t, I was hearing the conversation, it wasn’t my direct patient. And all this woman needed someone to do was listen to what she was trying to say. And I think that especially when you, you the sudden accents as in a Nigerian accent, we are straight to the point.
We loud our voices loud. It’s like I can’t whisper, I can’t. Talk, talk. Not, I’m not shouting, I’m just stating my point. So I think for me it’s what I can do on an individual basis sometimes, because I’ve been a junior doctor for a long time, right? So now it’s like almost how do we get into the point where you’re now educating at a, not just individual, but I’m able to now do the to, to masses, right?
And for people to truly understand. But for me, I’ve had to do that individual education because there’s many times where I’ve felt my maybe a colleague has, has made comments that I feel may be racist or they may have not realised was, and the microaggressions, and I’ve had to speak out. Okay. And if that made things awkward for me, it’s like, if you think that’s about that patient, you need to understand that that’s what you think about me.
I’m not different because you think I’m a doctor, right? Or because you think I’m working with you. So there are many times where I’ve had to almost do it on an individual basis, and that’s. That’s how I’ve almost advocated for patients in terms of standing there. Can you listen now? You listen Now, can you understand I’m not a ghost whisperer.
I don’t whisper and people relax. Okay? I just sit down, listen what to what the problem is and explain to you can you understand why she has a concern with that and why that’s a problem, and go from there. But I think sometimes people just make that judgment from. Just looks and what you feel like or what preconceived microaggressions that they do have, and you don’t know that when you have that as a medical professional, and this is why I told some of the people I’ve spoken to, it is dangerous if you hand over a patient in a way that seems careless and almost making stereo and very stereotypical, you are basically, that’s a dangerous act because if the next doctor should think, oh, this is just a blah, blah, blah, blah, blah type patient, then they, the patient may not get what they need and then you’re dealing with lives.
So it’s not about just a simple statement. It’s not just about a simple microaggression. There’s nothing simple about a microaggression or the stereotypes that you have. Especially when it comes to healthcare because it can significantly or negatively affect a patient. And I’ve had to be really headstrong because most times I’m sit down really friendly.
But there are times where I’ve had to be really like straight to the point. ’cause it’s really important. And I think when you show, when, as you as a colleague, show how important that is to you. Then it’s almost like, okay, I get it. I, I get it and I’m going to educate myself. Um, ’cause I think it’s so easy when people see the social media campaigns to do the black boxes and things, it’s like, oh, I just did it for doing sake ’cause everyone was doing it. So I’m like, no, you did it and I can see you did. You didn’t learn, so I’d rather you not do a black box. I’d rather you sit down and learn and I’ll rather you, um, understand what your, the consequences of the these are. So right now it’s been almost calling people out, but in a way that is not also, I have to also not be you know, combative, but very, um, and very much like clear, just like in medicine we have to be anyway, like clear on why it’s important, what you did, how it’s almost like you bring the evidence as well. Um, just so that you don’t end up being the aggressive Black woman to, and to be honest with you, if I have to be labeled as that to advocates, then there’s nothing I could, whatever, fine, I will do what you need to do, but you just need to be careful how you speak to patients and listen. So for me, I would say listening is so important. And that’s something that I like to like just sit down and do and my superpower.
Le’Nise Brothers: So you do a lot of work advocating for yourself, advocating for other people other patients.
Can you talk a little bit about what you do to take care of, of yourself?
Dr Joyce Omatseye: Yeah. I think everyone’s like, you do so much. How are you balancing? I think for me I started work as a doctor my first year as a doctor was actually in the pandemic. So I think I had to learn very early on in my career that if you just do work, you’ll burn out.
And I feel like I got to a point where I was burnt out and I actually got COVID, which maybe made me actually have seven days at home. So I had to learn really early that taking care of myself is just as important and sometimes. Nobody else is gonna tell you how to take care of yourself, especially when you work within healthcare.
So that’s something I learned in not the best way. But I had to learn because I was like, they still want you to come in with your COVID or no COVID. You’re recovered now by you feeling better. So for me, I always think about my life as seasons, first of all, just to reduce that pressure because I am someone that has lots of ideas, lots of things I want to do.
But again, I’m full-time training. So everything I’m doing, I don’t even have, I’m doing it out of hours. I’m doing it on weekends, I’m doing it in the evenings. So it’s important for me to think about things in seasons and also think about times for rest and then times for doing, obviously making sure rest is incorporated into that and time, so building my routines.
So for me, spending time with my family and my friends is like therapy. I need to have my family and friends around me. And so just like I schedule anything else, I schedule time with my parents. I schedule time with my friends. And like my mom and dad for example, I speak to them every day. My mom literally called me today like, are you okay? You didn’t talk, you didn’t call me this morning. I was like, well, I called my brother and I haven’t spoke, spoken to my dad who’s worried about me, so I almost have them to decompress and to tell them, oh, I feel like this today. Or I feel tired. ’cause I think sometimes as the first daughter as well, I carry on everybody’s. I carry on everybody’s thing, and I think my parents do a really good job identifying that Joyce is the type of person that will take on a lot and sometimes may not open up for everyone to share. So now I’m such a sharer with everything. So my thing is family. My thing is being, being allowing myself to just be open and express myself and to tell my friends about their feelings and allow them to see it back.
I love traveling and I love giving myself space to just rest. But I’ve also learned that I cannot save my rest. I can’t save my rest for a holiday, so I have to incorporate rest throughout my weeks. So, for example, on Sundays, if I go to church, I don’t do anything else. I don’t see anyone else.
I just spend time with myself. I just try and spend days with myself and my mind, and also days with my family and days where I’m just working on my projects. But I think for me it’s the seasons and scheduling me time, scheduling, rest time, and going from there. And it’s been going, it’s going fine. But this week I am tired and I’ve listened to my body, like I’m tired, fine. So this weekend you’re relaxing. I didn’t even know there was a bank holiday on Monday. I’m like so excited to, to find Exactly have it off. It’s extra reading. But yeah, like I just think it’s important to check in on yourself and your mental health, physical health, and I think as doctors. You’re the worst patient.
So if something is not right with me, I need to see a doctor too. Like, I’m like, tell me this, because I know it’s not this, I’ve checked myself. I know it’s not this, I know it’s not this. So now I think it’s this. So it’s important that I’m also listening to my own body like physically and mentally, and also being able to get help when I need that.
Le’Nise Brothers: So you are a member of a WHO Group, World Health Organisation Group that is about combating misinformation in global health. Can you talk a little bit about misinformation, because we know it’s rife on social media.
Yeah. We see it with, influencers talking about supplements, talking about different diets. Eat this, eat that, and don’t eat this. Don’t eat that. Can you talk about some examples, probably some really egregious examples that you’ve seen and how the average consumer can keep their eyes open to health misinformation?
Dr Joyce Omatseye: Yeah, so I can’t even remember. There’s so many things I’ve seen online that I’m like are you serious? Roots will heal you from inside or out like this doesn’t make sense. So for me, misinformation is a huge problem because the problem with misinformation and social media is that it actually does, in terms of numbers and statistics, it does way better and it can be spread way faster than the information that is actually correct.
And I think it’s really important because a lot of information we’re getting right now it’s fast-paced. You almost believe everything you see. If you’re not checking in on yourself, are your views your views or is it the views of the person that you watch all the time? So you really do, we really need, do need to be careful when it comes to social media, especially with health information.
As I said, with health information, if you give the wrong information, that is life-threatening information. And if you’re not a healthcare professional, so you’re an influencer or just a random person speaking online about something that you have no experience in you don’t necessarily have consequences.
You don’t get arrested, you don’t get your numbers taken from you, like a medical number and nothing like that. You don’t get in trouble for that, right? You may have a few people that call you out, fine, but their comments will probably be buried somewhere. And that’s why things like the WHO Fides are really important.
It’s how we get trusted healthcare professionals in on social media speaking about conditions, speaking about health concerns, um, speaking about nutrition and what’s important from people that actually have studied these, that have gone to universities and have done the courses and have the accreditation, and also if they say the wrong thing or they spread misinformation, have consequences for, will have consequences for the action.
If it’s a doctor, for example, the medical board or nurses. So I think it’s, it’s just really important for people to actively be aware of what exists. Because now what’s happening is that you also have AI coming in, which can be extremely helpful, but I’m also seeing some scary things of people using, lookalikes of doctors, and it doesn’t sound like them. They’ve used AI and changed voices, and I think that’s for me is the scariest because they’re now, you, yes, you’re identifying that people need a trusted individual. People need a trusted professional to come on and, and share that information, but now you’re now using the people’s likeness and spreading wrong information.
I think there has to be so much more done by the social media platforms. So I think YouTube Health is, has its own medical content creator group, and at least they’re encouraging doctors to get on there and to be very proactive about sharing that information.
But it’s not easy because again, any doctor you see online doing that is doing it out of their spare time. So they’re not enough of us to fight all the inform mis misinformation. And so that’s why people need to also be very much aware of what they’re consuming online. If before you do something, speak to your doctor about it, right?
If you can’t speak to your doctor, their website, like the NHS websites, there’s so much on the NHS websites that you can cross check and double check. If you’re in America, there’s the Cleveland, there’s a lot of different ways that you can check information. There’s a WHO website that you can check information.
We have to be really careful, and this is not just about health. It’s about a lots of different topics about what we’re actually consuming. I’ve started doing this thing every morning, which was by mistake. ’cause I tried to call my parents in the morning. They didn’t pick up one day, and I drove to work without anything and I was just almost talking to myself by my brain.
But I started checking in on, on the things that I had like learned this week. Like you saw that thing about this topic. What do you actually think about it? Is that actually your opinion? Because sometimes you listen to something and then you read the comments and you’re like, oh, I think I decide with you.
But you, if you’re not careful and you don’t check in, your thoughts can be other people’s thoughts because the world is so noisy now. ’cause you have access to so many people’s opinions. So I would say in general. It’s really important for us to be very, very careful of what we are consuming to double check before we change our medications, stop our medications, start any diets that we’re not sure about.
Speak to your nutritionist, speak to your nurses. There’s so many people that you can reach out to within the NHS and then within in terms of actually getting your appointments to be able to discuss these things. But I wouldn’t make any changes based on. Anything you see online, especially if it’s not from a trusted professional.
And most healthcare professionals cannot give personal information or personal. I can’t give you personal medical advice online. I can give you general information about a topic. I can give you education and research around certain things, so you’re more educated, but you can’t message me directly online.
I’m not going to answer you about a topic. It’s important you see your doctor because they have all your records. They know who you are, what medications you’re on. What will interact with what, and I think that’s a lot of things that people don’t understand in terms of your medical history and your medications.
They’re really important for us as doctors to know because it will, it would affect what medications we give or not give, or what, you know, nutritional advice would, we would give depending on what medications or what conditions you have. So there’s so much more that goes into saying yes or no about a particular thing.
And I think that’s why I don’t like, I like people to be not be afraid of asking their doctors questions. Like, why? Like, why are you giving me this? Why does that make sense for me? It’s like, yes, I can explain, let me explain and I can show you the guideline that tells us to do this. So I’m not making this up, I promise you.
Right? Um, so I like it when patients come with that. ’cause it’s, it feels like it two way thing. It shouldn’t feel like I’m just telling you what to do.
Le’Nise Brothers: You said that you like it when your patients ask you questions, but on the other side of it, I hear from a lot of women who are afraid to take things to their doctors.
It’s amazing on TikTok when I post about certain issues with regards to periods and hormones. The questions that I get, and I, a lot of them, I’m say, you have to go speak to your doctor about this. You know, please go and see your doctor. I’ve been bleeding for six months. Please go to your doctor.
Oh but I’m scared. So in that situation, if someone says, I’m scared to go speak to my doctor, what would you say?
Dr Joyce Omatseye: Yeah. First of all, I know that feeling of lots of women feel like if I go to a doctor, are they going to listen to me? And also can I get everything I need to get across for them to understand how this is really affecting me?
Right? And so how I like to think about things is what you do like before an appointment, during an appointment, and after an appointment. And the reason why I say that is that I also use this when if like when I’m a patient and I make sure that my friends and family use this as well. Before your appointment, you’ve already had discussions with people, you’ve already done your Google research you’ve met, you’ve Googled Dr. Google, right? To ask, well, you’ve asked ChatGPT. My last patient came with ChatGPT notes, like this is what ChatGPT said to do. I would write down what you actually are concerned about, because what happens is that when you walk into that consultation room, a lot of people forget what they’re going to say.
And also, if you don’t tell me clearly. Sometimes your doctors that are in such a hurry, they look at something else and say, oh, is it bloods you’re here for? And they talk about something completely different from what you’ve come in and you’re like, yeah, I want bloods, but I also wanted something else.
Right? So I would say before your appointment, first of all, don’t be scared because we’re always, whether or not you come, another patient will see me. I have to work the nine to five. I told my patient the other day, don’t be sorry for coming here. ’cause if it wasn’t you, somebody else would be in. Okay? So it’s fine that you’re here.
Write down what you are concerned about. Write down what you think it is, what your mom said it is. What your friend said it is. Write down that I asked this and they said to come and see your doctor. Fine. And then when you come in, actually come in with those notes. And explain your symptoms. And when I say write down your what you think it is, also write down the symptoms you are experiencing, even those random ones.
Because with period pain, we know that period pain, a lots of things can affect it. But if you have this plus bloating, I go down a different route. If you have this plus heavy periods, I go down a different route. Right? So even the random things that you think. Just normal. I’m just used to it.
I just have bloating. I would write down those symptoms. So when you come and see me as a doctor, you are very clear on I’m having issues in my period, and this is what I’ve written down. And I can go through what you’ve written down as you’re explaining to me, because I can clearly see your thought process on what you are concerned about as you’re explaining to me.
And then you ask me. So let’s say, I see, okay. I don’t think you need some blood tests and I think some ultrasound scan. Do you mind just explaining why I don’t need an ultrasound scan? Do you mind just explaining why you are giving me an ultrasound scan instead of bloods? Because I think sometimes people think they didn’t give me bloods.
Blood tests are like the gold standard for everything, where it’s like, actually no, I’m looking for fibroids. So that’s why, and if you as a doctor don’t necessarily tell your patients why you’re giving things, they’re going to leave their feeling like you didn’t listen to them or you give them the wrong thing, even though you’re still doing maybe the right thing for them or investigating one of the symptoms. So I would say before your appointment, as I said, write everything down during your appointment. Don’t be afraid of showing your thoughts and asking the questions that you need to. And if you feel like you’re not being listened to, seriously ask for a second opinion.
There’s no doctor that should feel offended. If you want a second opinion, and there’s even someone in the practice that I can call to give you a second opinion. And I’ve been very lucky when I as a trainee to just be like, you know what? I think it’s this, but I’m going to check with my supervisor if that’s okay.
And patients love it. So, you know, like they’re like, yes, I have two doctors. That’s fine. If you need to seek a second opinion. No one should get offended by that. At the end of the day, it’s your body. You know your body more than anything else, whether it’s within that GP practice or it’s within a hospital and you need to, you know, get something else.
Or, sometimes if we have people that are not in the UK and we have people that are in other countries. Most people have to pay for a service. We’re very lucky in the UK I don’t, I know that, you know, the system is not great and it’s not easy. I completely understand. But I think being from Nigeria, I also have that other perspective of every, it’s out of pocket. You have to pay for a service, right? So if you’re also in a position where you’re able to pay, then make sure that you also know that you can seek that. Other opinion and pay for a second opinion if you need to. Just ’cause I know people that listen to this podcast are not just in, in the UK, for example, where it’s free.
So I would say that’s before, during, after, and after and after the appointment. Make sure you know, when do you want to see me? When do I expect you? Like, okay, if I do the results, am I coming back to see you or not? If this continues for how many months, when should I come and see you? These are questions and I am gonna do something on this because lots of people have asked like, can you just write me like three questions to ask my doctor after? Because I think what happens is that you leave the appointment and fair enough, okay, they’ve done my scans, they even, they’ve even done my bloods, but. I don’t even know when I’m seeing them again, I didn’t ask what other conditions they think it could be.
I didn’t ask what they’re actually investigating. Yes, you went in for blood and ultrasound scan, but do you know what they’re looking for? No, and I think it’s important you to say, I’m looking for this, and that, so that if you then find fibroids on an ultrasound scan, that’s not the first time the patient is hearing about fibroids.
And a lot of women, we hear about our medical conditions. For the first time when we’re diagnosed, no one has told us we’re doing blood tests to check for PCOS. We’re doing ultrasound scans to check for fibroids. And so if it comes back positive for fibroids, fine. If it doesn’t come back positive for fibroids, then I will check for this.
So I think within lots of things, it’s just that follow up of doing what the next steps are. So, sorry, I’ve spoken about lots of things. I’m gonna summarise. The first thing before is just to write down all your thoughts, what you think your symptoms are. Keep a diary of your symptoms you’re getting. During, show your doctor that list of things that you’re concerned about. Explain as you’re going along. Tell them how it’s affecting you directly. Ask them questions on what they think it is, what conditions they’re worried about, and why they’re doing certain tests, and what the next steps will be. And then after, just make sure you know what the follow up is.
Make sure you know how you can contact your doctor, how you find out the results of those scans. Do I go on my NHS app? Is it something that you’ll contact me about? Because that way you leave fully knowing the next steps. And you’ve lived fully knowing that yes, this has been investigated. There’s nothing worse than going see your doctor and leaving, like nothing was done and you didn’t listen to me, and now I’m still in this position.
Right. So hopefully those are a bit helpful.
Le’Nise Brothers: Yeah. You’ve shared so much amazing information and I know it will be really helpful. Where can people find you if they want to? Read more about the work that you do, attend one of your amazing events. Where can people find you?
Dr Joyce Omatseye: So Instagram is probably the best place.
So my handle is at @signed.drj. And you should also follow @aranini.health. We actually have a newsletter coming out soon, which we’ll be posting every month to start week or every two weeks. And it’s, you’ll get all the information on events exclusives from like doctors, and we’re bringing doctors in to just share their opinions so you can have trusted health information as well supply to your email. So I would follow @aranini.health on Instagram and also my page as well.
Le’Nise Brothers: And all the links will be in the show notes.
Yes. Thank you so much Dr. Joyce. It’s been wonderful speaking to you. Congratulations again. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Dr Joyce Omatseye: No, thank you so, so much. It’s been amazing to be on here and thank you for all you do in this space because it’s really important that we do have these conversations and hopefully continues to get bigger and bigger.
So I’m excited to be part of this.