On today’s episode of Period Story, I speak with Kate Smith, the CEO and co-founder of Hey Girls CIC, a multi-award-winning social enterprise dedicated to ending period poverty in the UK.
In this episode, Kate shares:
- How she went from looking forward to her first period to feeling overwhelmed by shame once it arrived
- How her experience of teaching menstrual education has helped her feel more in control of her period
- Why the luxury of menstrual product choice is so important and empowering
- What the term period dignity means and why it’s connected to period equality
- The importance of non-stigmatising and inclusive language when it comes to menstruation
- The work Hey Girls are doing to help reduce period poverty, including the 42 million products they’ve donated into the community since 2018!
- Why you should buy from social enterprises and why Hey Girls was set up this way
- The work Hey Girls have done with This Girl Can to share low cost ways to move during each phase of the menstrual cycle
- And of course, the story of her first period
Kate says Hey Girls doesn’t want anyone to be held back by their period, whether that’s speaking up in a meeting or participating in sports. She says that menstruation shouldn’t be a barrier to being equal in society or feeling dignified.
Thank you, Kate!
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SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Le’Nise Brothers: Hi, Kate. Thank you so much for coming onto the show today. I’m really excited to speak to you, talk about the work that you’re doing with hey girls…. But first, let’s get into the question that I start each conversation off with on the show, which is tell us the story of your very first period.
Kate Smith: Yeah, thanks for having me along today.
So to give a little context to where I was in that time of my life, my parents had separated when I was really young and I had lived with my mum all through my childhood. And then when I was about 11, I lived with my dad. And I’d had a slightly kind of rocky relationship with my dad anyway, so moving in with him when you’re 11 years old was a little bit challenging and obviously going to high school. But to go back to my period I’d wanted my period so badly for so long, and I suppose in my mind I was a late bloomer. But actually I got my period when I was 13, so I wasn’t particularly late at all. But I grew up in a friendship group and in a kind of geographical area where the kids that I was with were quite mature. Even at 13, you know, we were going out drinking and smoking and things like that. So, um, yeah, I was kind of longing for it. But then when it came, when I was 13 and it came, I was instantly kind of overwhelmed with this shame.
And feeling dirty and not wanting to talk to anyone about it. And I was so embarrassed that I didn’t tell my dad. So I didn’t even tell him at all until he found out because I was basically stealing tampons from my stepmum. So she had obviously told him that I was taking tampons and he refused to buy me period products, uh, well refused to buy me tampons because I think I grew up in a kind of, uh, attitude I know a lot of people did wear tampons were seen as kind of like slutty, like you would lose your virginity, so he would only buy me pads. So it was kind of, and that in itself kind of makes you feel shameful about even wanting to use tampons. And all my friends were using tampons, so I again felt kind of lesser than using pads.
And obviously people would tease depending on what period products you use. So I grew up in that kind of very stigmatised way of thinking. And I just remember being so particularly so ashamed of brown blood and thinking, why is my, I always imagined period blood to be bright red and why is my period blood brown?
And I always remember really, really vividly thinking there was something wrong with me because my period blood was brown. So overall, you know, the first experience was, was not, not that great.
Le’Nise Brothers: Hmm. And what’s really interesting is that you went from feeling really excited and longing for your period to having the complete opposite, where there was just this like moving from excitement to shame and feeling like it was something that you needed to hide.
Can you just say a little bit more about where the excitement came from? Why were you excited to get your period?
Kate Smith: It’s, it’s really interesting because I have an older sister, she’s three, four years older than me, and I remember her getting her period. And I remember I always, I’ve always looked up to my big sister as a lot of, you know, younger siblings do.
And we lived with my mum at the time and I remember the celebration that was had and my mum particularly saying to my sister, you’re a woman now. And it was a lovely thing to see, and I kind of couldn’t wait to have that I’m a woman now feeling, but actually when I got my periods, it was a completely different, I didn’t want to talk about it because I knew my dad wouldn’t have that kind of celebration that my sister had had.
And of course, I told my mum when I went home to, you know, I still saw her and things. But yeah, the initial. The initial excitement came from seeing that, from seeing her, having that,
Le’Nise Brothers: Yeah.
Kate Smith: You know, celebration.
Le’Nise Brothers: And then going from this feeling of wanting to have a similar experience to your sister, to then having one that was shamed, not only because you felt like you couldn’t talk about it, but also being shamed for. Using tampons and this kind of almost sexualisation of a period product, which, it’s so sad. It’s just so, and I hear this, even people saying to this day, you know this, you know, why are you using tampons and. I, this is going to lead into a conversation that I’d like to have with you later around period dignity.
Kate Smith: Mm-hmm.
Le’Nise Brothers: But I want to just talk a little bit about this shame and how it affected you throughout your teenage years. Were you able to move past it at all?
Kate Smith: No. Not for a really, really long time. And. I didn’t have, there wasn’t adequate education in my school about it. I didn’t go to a particularly great school.
And I didn’t have well-informed friends. So all my education came from my friends, particularly, there was the myths and the taboos that, I remember the one really, really, really vividly at my school that you couldn’t get pregnant while you were on your period. And I genuinely thought you couldn’t get pregnant when you were on your period.
And there were some, you know. People that had had babies in my year because of that. You know, so really life changing myths and taboos actually for some people. But yeah, as a, you know, as a teenager, just co just completely feeling isolated and, you know, not able to talk to a grownup about it and all the information coming from other teenagers.
And I suppose it wasn’t until much older in my teens when I actually. I moved back in with my mum and you know, my relationship with women’s health and things really improved. Then things started to feel like, okay, I’ve got somebody that I can ask questions to, and you know, feeling the feeling of embarrassment definitely started to decline.
Le’Nise Brothers: That’s great. And then what was your period like after that? Because you said that in the beginning you had brown blood and you didn’t understand and you thought that something was wrong with you. Did you, once you were then living with your mum, you were able to ask questions, were you able to figure out what was going on?
Kate Smith: I mean, I always, my sister’s got endometriosis, so I always compared my bleeds with hers. So I always thought actually I have a really, a really good period compared to I thought hers and obviously she hasn’t been, she’s only been diagnosed recently with endometriosis. I thought hers was normal and mine was, I, you know, I was having actually a really, a really positive experience with how much pain, you know, I would see her regularly kind of passing out from pain and being sick and things like that. So I thought, you know, if I haven’t got that, then that’s great. But still, even to e even in my early twenties, I didn’t track, I didn’t know where my bleed would happen.
I didn’t know how long it would happen for. And then I kind of went into the world of contraception and my bleed was all over the place. And I kind of didn’t have enough knowledge to challenge anything the doctors were saying. So I’d gone on lots of different types of contraception. So yeah, it was just not enough information given to me and not really knowing when I should ask the questions as well. So had I have known that it is irregular to have, you know, it isn’t normal to have lots of irregular bleeding and things like that when you are the first time you’re taking contraception then I would’ve asked, but I just thought this is all kind of normal because I’m not having experience like she’s having that is awful. So I’ll just kind of get on with it.
Le’Nise Brothers: Hmm. And what’s your experience of your period now?
Kate Smith: I feel in control. Because I teach period education, I understand all the parts of my cycle, which I think, we focus so much on the bleed because obviously that’s the bit that you see and that’s the bit that we all talk about.
But understanding the rest of my cycle and, and other people who menstruate, understand their rest of their cycle, particularly around their mental health. I know now when, you know, the week before my period, my mental health takes a dip. I’ve always struggled in and, you know, in and out different levels of poor mental health.
But I know the week before my period, if I’m feeling really, really low, that actually sometimes I’m longing for my bleed because I know then I’ll start to go back to what is my normal.
Le’Nise Brothers: Hmm.
Kate Smith: So just having that empowerment in itself and then of course the, you know, the luxury of choice with products is something that has been really important to me.
And it’s, you know, that from a kid longing to use tampons. And then in my late teens, early twenties, only using tampons ’cause that’s what everybody’s used. And it was kind of cool, a cool kid on the scene, you know, using Tampax compact. But actually they hurt me. They weren’t right for me and it wasn’t until much later that using period pants makes my period so much more, not enjoyable, but you know, comfortable.
And now I would never go back from period pants because to me that’s a product that works perfectly for me.
Le’Nise Brothers: Mm-hmm.
Kate Smith: So even things with product choice, you know, now is so much more empowering that I can use a product that suits me well.
Le’Nise Brothers: That’s so interesting, the shift from tampons to period underwear.
And I remember this when I was a teenager, that same sort of thought, oh, tampons are so cool, and yeah, I would never use a tampon now, and I would only use it if it was an absolute emergency. Like, you know, you get your period and you’re out and you’re totally unprepared. But I would and judge me or not, but I would rather use wadded up toilet paper than use a tampon.
Kate Smith: Mm-hmm.
Le’Nise Brothers: I just, I just hate them. But this kind of goes into a really interesting topic that I had never heard before. So the term period dignity.
Kate Smith: Mm-hmm.
Le’Nise Brothers: Can you say more about that term? I think I understand what it means. Yeah. But I just never really heard that term used before.
Yeah. So can you just say more about that?
Kate Smith: Yeah. So. Particularly things that we focus on are period equality and period dignity. And a lot of the time the environments that we talk about, those two things are workplaces. And I think that’s because people who menstruate a lot of the time in those places feel really undignified to the lengths that they have to go to to stay in the workplace or to go to that important meeting and how they feel within themselves. You know, we’ve heard some really awful stories actually, particularly in, you know, the workplace of where people have had an experience, whether that’s an irregular bleed or you know, where they’re going through menopause or they just have irregular bleeding from another kind of mental, uh, a medical condition.
Or they’ve had a really, really heavy period, or, you know, lots of different reasons. They’ve come on their periods unexpectedly and they in the workplace and they felt so undignified. And I think everyone can resonate and most people who menstruate can resonate with I mean, even I’ve done it when I, in a previous life, when I’ve worked somewhere else.
Leaking onto an office chair is just makes you feel, you’re just thinking, I’m going to, or, you know, flooding and sitting on your office chair and thinking, do you know what, I can’t, I can’t get up because if I get up, I’m going to leave a stain on my chair and then have to bolt to the toilet and there’s going to be no products in there.
I’ve got nothing on me. I’m going to have to probably ask a colleague for help. And you know, it can become really embarrassing. You know, for everyone, but particularly people who are in management and are, have this kind of high expectation to be a certain way and to lead their team. And what does that look like?
Le’Nise Brothers: Mm.
Kate Smith: So, you know, is retaining that, that dignity and, you know, and the same with equality. We don’t want anyone to be held back by their period, regardless of what they’re doing. Whether that’s speaking up in a, in a meeting, or, participating in sports. Anything that you would be able to do if you want to do while you’re menstruating, you know, to not be that, not that, let that be a barrier, to not be equal in society. So there’s, you know, there’s that part, and then there’s the part around poverty, which is the biggest part really, of our organisation because myself, my mum, my sister, we grew up in poverty, different levels and also, you know, throughout older life as well have lived in different levels of poverty.
You know, we’ve never experienced homelessness, but there’s definitely been elements of, things being really, really hard. Actually, when you’re living on the breadline and you are working and you are looking after children and you are having to do all the things that we have to do whilst constantly worrying about how you’re going to pay the bills and feed your family, and, and that’s another massive part of not feeling dignified.
And I’m sure anyone who could, who has experienced poverty will resonate with not feeling dignified and not feeling equal in society. And, it’s only a tiny part of what we do. Well, only a tiny part of that is to be able to give someone period products who, you know, is relying on a food bank. But actually, we support food banks with reusable products.
So actually the, you know, how lovely it is to be able to give someone who’s relying on a food bank reusable period pants, particularly, you know, reusable, uh, period pants, maybe five pairs. So they’re self-sufficient when they’re menstruating and they continue to, you know, go to work and pick up the kids.
All the other things that are going on in our lives. But that’s just one tiny thing that’s kind of taken off the worry list for now.
Le’Nise Brothers: Mm-hmm.
Kate Smith: And that’s, you know, where we really concentrate on the dignity for all who menstruate.
Le’Nise Brothers: Yeah. I think that is so important. And I think there’s can be a lot of privilege in conversations around menstruation.
I’d love to get your take on this actually, you know, every year there’s Menstrual Hygiene Day and every year, inevitably people come out and they say it shouldn’t be called Menstrual Hygiene Day. But I do think, when you don’t have period dignity. So in some of the examples that you’ve given where you don’t know where you are going to get your next menstrual product from.
Kate Smith: Mm-hmm.
Le’Nise Brothers: Or thinking about people who are living on the bread line. They don’t necessarily have access to clean toilets. Not only in other parts of the world, but even in the UK. There is this element of hygiene there where if you don’t have anywhere to bleed, or can’t wash your underwear or
Kate Smith: mm-hmm.
Le’Nise Brothers: Your trousers. That’s unhygienic and the, I do think there’s that privilege of saying, well, you know, we do, we, we don’t have to think about hygiene anymore, but we do. And being able to say, well actually Menstrual Hygiene Day, there’s a need for that because we still have to think about that element of having a period.
That’s my view. I would love to know your take on it.
Kate Smith: Around, particularly around hygiene or just the words that we use.
Le’Nise Brothers: I guess it’s just like that kind of, that conversation that comes up every year on Menstrual Hygiene Day and people say, well, it should be called something different.
Kate Smith: Okay.
Le’Nise Brothers: Yeah.
Kate Smith: So with the language, we went through a huge journey with language and we do.
Shy away from using the words hygiene.
Le’Nise Brothers: Okay.
Kate Smith: Just because it, well, just because it kind of implies in a way that period blood, menstrual blood is unhygienic. Although there is obviously a massive kind of conversation about personal hygiene and, and that again is part of dignity, personal hygiene.
But we also really looked into the word sanitary and unsanitary. And you know, we try not to use the word sanitary products anymore because also that implies that period blood is unsanitary, but ultimately what period products are are to keep yourself clean.
Le’Nise Brothers: Mm-hmm.
Kate Smith: So it is a, it is a kind of, there’s lots of complexities around a conversation and I really think it’s important that people use language which sits well with them.
Hmm. And whenever we talk about menstruation. And it’s the same with using the words women and girls and, and everyone who menstruates. I think it’s a journey and our language that we’ve used has been, you know, has changed and the branding has changed. And so, but obviously we still have the name hey girls… because that is our, that is where we’re from, you know, that is why we began.
Yeah, I think it’s a really difficult question. And I try and use very kind of inclusive and very non stigmatising language.
Le’Nise Brothers: Hmm. Yeah. And I think it’s important to have these conversations. Yeah.
Kate Smith: Yeah.
Le’Nise Brothers: To be able to interrogate, okay, well what does this actually mean and how can we unpack these words? I completely agree with what you said around the term sanitary.
Kate Smith: Mm-hmm.
Le’Nise Brothers: It drives me nuts when you go to the supermarket and you still see sanitary products.
Kate Smith: Yeah.
Le’Nise Brothers: I want to just go back to what you said around dignity and you, when people do get their period in the workplace.
Kate Smith: Yeah.
Le’Nise Brothers: And they’re not expecting it. I often think there are two parts of this conversation.
It’s the shame that some people can feel where, oh my gosh, I’ve got my period, people might see, and I do think that there are some people who they don’t care. They will talk about their period and oh my gosh, I just, I had a leak. And for them it’s no big deal. And I absolutely love that, but some people, they just aren’t there yet, and that’s absolutely fine. Everyone is on their own journey. But then the other side of it, where is this judgment that other people can have a, oh, look at her. She’s on her period. Oh, look at her. She’s on, she’s had a leak. Or look at them, they’ve had a leak.
Kate Smith: Mm-hmm.
Le’Nise Brothers: I think, you know, there’s two parts of the conversation.
It’s the shame that people can feel, but also this fear of judgment from others and the judgment that can happen from others. And I really think about this campaign that Bloody Good Period did the charity, Bloody Good Period did a couple years ago around, you know, don’t put your tampon
Kate Smith: Yeah.
Le’Nise Brothers: Up your sleeve.
And you know, just owning the fact that you have your period and you might have leaks and that’s just part of, part of life.
Kate Smith: Yeah. It was so, I think so empowering to allow those people who do want to share, to share, but also there are people that don’t want to share and they’ll never get to that stage where they want to and, and shouldn’t have pressure to share if you want to, you know, we always say, menstruation is, is private, but it doesn’t have to be kept secret.
So, you know, empowering those people. And, and that’s nice about the work that we do because when you start the conversation, it opens those doors for people to be able to share without any pressure. But actually the people that just want to listen and they’re not ready to share and they’re not ready to hold their tampon out proudly when they go to the loo, that’s also okay.
Le’Nise Brothers: Yeah.
Kate Smith: People of of my generation and older, it was so shameful that you, they may never get there. That’s okay. But what we’re trying to do, especially for the younger generations, and you know, I have a child and she’s seven and I really, I know and hope that when she gets to that age that she won’t feel like she has to hide it away or can’t talk to me about it, or can’t talk to her friends about it and, and can’t talk to her teachers, you know, because that she’s grown up in that environment, so that will be very normal for her and I really hope that she’ll be able to support her friends who maybe still don’t live in that environment. You know, we’re never going to get there with, with everybody. But yeah. The work that Bloody Good Period did was uh, so important to allow that kind of opportunity for people to say, I’m actually all right with this. Yeah. And it, you know, the allowance that it gave people. Yeah.
Le’Nise Brothers: Yeah. I want to now touch upon period poverty. You mentioned it earlier and when I was preparing for our conversation, I was digging into some research and, again, going back to Bloody Good Period. They did a survey where they found that 24% of those who menstruate in the UK say that they’ve struggled to afford period products, and 61% said that if period products were cheaper or more free products were available, it would improve their mental health or wellbeing.
Can you talk more about period poverty and the work that hey girls… are doing in this area?
Kate Smith: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So we were established in 2018, so we’ve been around for kind of seven, eight years now. And our model was very, very simple when we set it up for all the products that we sell. So we sell products to workplaces and to, you know, eco stores and distributors and, and we used to sell to supermarkets and everything that we sell, we donate exactly the same back into the community for free. And we work with about 400 community partners. And those community partners are a lot of the time small kind of grassroots organisations. And you know, some people, you know, may have heard of them and, and have relied on them in the past. You know, like the little food banks that run out out of churches and other kind of single parent support, support groups out of children’s centres maybe. And we link up with all those. So we have about 400 of them up and down the UK and we supply them with the free period products. Without, if we didn’t sell period products, we wouldn’t be able to donate them.
But because we sell, you know, we sell a good amount of products, we donate a huge amount of products into the community and work to about 42 million products from the beginning that we’ve donated into the community. The reason that we do that via our community partners is because they’ve got the relationships with the people in the community who are able to not only give out period products, but give them out with a little bit of education as well.
A huge part of what we do isn’t just about products, it’s about the education, the shame, the stigma, the understanding. So we’ve created educational resources and lots of other, other things that can support our community partners with working with their community about menstrual health. And we donate all of our product line. So we have, uh, disposable products, tampons and pads, but we have a full range of reusable products. So reusable pads, cups and period pants. And donating those particular products back into the community is a really lovely thing to do, although it does need to come with some education ’cause a lot of the time people will have a better experience with menstruation on a with using a reusable product just because it suits their needs a little bit better, particularly if you’ve got heavy bleeding or something like that. So that’s how we were set up back in 2018. And when we started, it was just pads.
We just used to sell pads, donate pads, and we’ve grown our product line to lots of different products now. And yeah, I’ve hit 42 million. Um, donations now. So a huge amount of really beautiful, sustainable products back into our community.
Le’Nise Brothers: That’s incredible numbers and just incredible work that I know will be having such a positive impact.
Are there any stories that you can share about the impact that this work has had on, on people in their personal lives?
Kate Smith: Yeah, there’s, I mean, we get testimonials constantly from the community. But ones that I find particularly, wonderful are for parents who ha who are really struggling. Um, and I think I resonate with that.
’cause being a parent yourself, you can understand, I mean, I’m in a very privileged position where I don’t struggle, but financially, but to be a parent struggling financially and all you want is the best for your child. And to be able to say, I went to my local support group and picked up some reusable pants, and kids tend to love period pants, don’t know why I honestly think it’s ’cause they don’t have to change their period products at school. Because I even remember as a kid myself, that was just a whole thing in itself. And they’re either struggling with their period for X, Y, Z or they have some sensory processing disorders around menstruating.
And that has made such a difference to a week of their, you know, a week out of the month of their lives that they find really hard. And actually as a parent to be able to give that to your kids and knowing it as well, that you kind of, the financial burden of having to purchase period products, um, that maybe weren’t suitable for your child or whatever has made a real difference to that kid.
And I think that is just, that keeps me going.
Le’Nise Brothers: Mm.
Kate Smith: It’s really hard to run a social enterprise. It’s really hard to run hey girls…. So seeing, you know, those testimonials come in. Just think, okay, this is why we’re doing it. And I make sure that I send them round to our team ’cause you know, we all work incredibly hard and that is what keeps us going.
Actually, you are making a difference to that person and just making things, as I say, a world of absolute chaos, making a tiny bit of their world just a little bit better, I think is, is really lovely.
Le’Nise Brothers: Yeah. That’s amazing. And I think you, when you think about the reusable products, they, they can be a little bit more in terms of cost
Kate Smith: yeah,
Le’Nise Brothers: compared to disposable period products. But then if you think about the over the long run where you know that actually I don’t have to go and buy a 10 box of pads or tampons every single menstrual month. It’s just, you know that it’s there. You know you don’t, you are never going to run out, the period underwear, the cup, the reusable pad, it’s always going to be there. And yeah, okay. Over time you might have to replace them, but it’s not something that’s going to play on your mind. And then someone who’s living in poverty in
Kate Smith: mm-hmm.
Le’Nise Brothers: The various levels of poverty, to know that that’s not something that they have to calculate. Yeah. Or it’s incredible.
Kate Smith: Yeah. It’s just one less thing that you have to put in your shopping basket.
Le’Nise Brothers: Mm-hmm.
Kate Smith: And that’s what we want. As I’m sure people who have experienced, you know, living on the breadline, you look at your shopping basket and you think, what can I put back?
Le’Nise Brothers: Mm-hmm.
Kate Smith: And it, and your period products go back and your shampoo goes back ’cause I can wash my hair with washing up liquid. Those things all go back, all your kind of luxuries if you will. And you stick to your basics. But actually, if you don’t, if there’s one of those items that you don’t have to worry about, then brilliant. You can still go on and buy your pasta and your potatoes and all the things that you need to, feed your family.
Le’Nise Brothers: Yeah. Hey girls… is the company that you are, the CEO and co-founder of is a social enterprise and it puts its social mission of eradicating period poverty, improving access to quality products, and increasing menstrual education at the heart.
Kate Smith: Yeah.
Le’Nise Brothers: Can you say, firstly, what a social enterprise is for someone who might not be familiar with that?
Kate Smith: So it’s a great question. And if everyone could buy from a social enterprise, the world would be a better place. A social enterprise is an organisation that’s set up to do good. And that good looks different for lots of different social enterprises, but ultimately your, you have a commitment to support your planet and to support your community.
And we’re also a CIC, which was something, something that was really important to Mum when she set up hey girls… in 2018 with me to be a CIC and a not-for-profit. So being a CIC means that we have to serve our community, community interest company. And we do that via our donations and our education. And that is, you know, the heart of everything we do.
So any partnership, any campaign, we go back to our mission and our vision, and that is to end period poverty in the UK. And if it’s not on mission, then we’re not doing it.
Le’Nise Brothers: Mm.
Kate Smith: So it really keeps us focused and the running, running a business for good. So that goes from everything to, the hand soap that we use, the pens that we buy, the support that we give the people that work for us, offering school hours.
Everything that you can do just to make your business that much more friendly to your community, to your planet, going through. So much work to make sure that we’re providing sustainable period products. And that’s been a whole journey within itself. There’s a lot of conversation and controversy about sustainability within period products to be on that journey, making sure that we’re making, ’cause we’re donating, you know, millions of period products back into the community, therefore into landfill, making sure that they’re not going to be there for 800 years. You know, we make sure that our pads biodegrade in 90 days and we have, you know, that’s part of our, our commitment to being a social enterprise that we do.
We do social good. And that also applies to, our, the world that we live in and the world that we’re trying to look after. Yeah, it’s a it, and that’s why I say, hey girls… is incredibly hard, a hard organisation to run because a lot of the time, the choices that you have to make to run a, a business doing good are not good business decisions.
Le’Nise Brothers: Mm.
Kate Smith: It would be much easier. If we were, you know, a for-profit organisation, big corporate conglomerate, but it, you know, it’s not who we are. It’s not why we exist, and we want to, go to bed at night knowing that actually the decisions that we’ve made are all for our mission and, you know, social good.
So yeah, that’s what makes us also quite a special organisation. And obviously I’m very biased, but passionate about it.
Le’Nise Brothers: It’s really refreshing when you know, you are, you’re hearing about all of these other companies who are just focused on profits and yes, shareholder benefits and dividends to have a company that is focused on social good, the good of the community, and how they can give back and make business decisions that aren’t driven by profit. Yeah, it’s extremely refreshing. I’m just really excited that we’re able to have this conversation today and I can spotlight the work that you’re doing and just to now move on to a really interesting campaign that you recently launched with This Girl Can, which focuses on low cost ways of moving during each phase of the menstrual cycle.
Can you say a little bit more about this campaign, why it’s important and the impact that you’ve seen so far from it?
Kate Smith: Yeah. I think it’s been one of my favourite campaigns that we’ve ever done because it really does get to, I think that, as we’ve said, kind of period health and women’s health and even things when we, talking about menopause relies on a certain amount of privilege.
It either relies on sometimes private healthcare or financial backing. Or, you know, something that is just out of reach for some people. Whereas the campaign that we did with this girl can was getting the information via our community partners. So we used our community partner network to be able to feed the information into people who we know wouldn’t have that necessarily, that privilege, um, to have the information and empowering them about understanding their menstrual cycle.
That’s the kind of. That’s the top line. The aim to understand your menstrual cycle and understand tracking and why it’s so important to track your menstrual cycle for all you know, to spot medical conditions, to spot your mental health conditions, to understand what’s normal, quote unquote, and what not normal and why you need to get the support, but actually to encourage people to move in a way that works well for them.
And again, movement around menstruation as. My personal opinion has always been kind of shrouded with this awful, toxic positivity, you know, with the white shorts and, and it’s not like that for a lot of people and you don’t have to take up tennis, but sometimes going for a gentle walk or just meeting up with some friends and going for a really gentle jog just for a little bit or something that works for you and that was in is, is in your comfort zone, can actually make you feel so much better in certain phases of your cycle and really encouraging, you know, particularly young people that you can move if you want to when you are bleeding.
I can’t remember the statistics, but I even remembered it when I was at school, a lot of the kids who get their periods are like, that’s it. I can’t do PE anymore. I can’t do any form of exercise. And sometimes you don’t want to, and that’s cool. You know, you don’t have to, but you can with the right period protection.
And sometimes actually doing a bit of gentle stretching or gentle exercise will make you feel better. It will ease those cramps. It will kind of give you those endorphins to make, give you a little bit of a boost and you can still participate and be with your mates. So it. It was doing that and what this girl can was so, you know, did so beautifully and, and hopefully my community feel that as well is to do that in a really non-toxic way, in a really kind of nurturing way that is quite soft that actually, and when you’re tracking your cycle, there are particular movements that you can do to help how you’re feeling within that cycle. So, kind of pinpointing when different activities fit in better with your cycle, and just that bit of knowledge and people may do it and build it into their routine and people may, you know, just do it ad hoc when they feel like they need a bit of something extra.
And we just did that via social media you know, leaflets and posters and other resources that were really kind of accessible for people and that they could just engage with and, and hopefully come back to us and say, do you know what, this has made a little bit of a difference and that’s enough.
Le’Nise Brothers: Yeah.
Kate Smith: And, you know, I’m not, we’re not changing lives. We we’re not, making earth shattering changes, but to make a little bit of a difference, to make somebody feel just a little bit better within their day, then that’s amazing.
Le’Nise Brothers: You said that it’s not earth shattering, you’re not changing lives, but for it can be life changing for someone who,
Kate Smith: yeah.
Le’Nise Brothers: Is used to being bound, bedbound during their period to realise that actually they can do like a few stretches and that can actually make a difference to how they feel. I’m thinking about people with endometriosis where they feel like they, if they have to stay in one position, and it can lead to a lot of stiffness, and if they do some gentle stretches.
It can actually be incredibly helpful. And it’s that mental shift of, okay, I don’t, I am not stuck to my bed, you know? Yeah. I can move around a little bit and it can be okay. And that mental shift can be life changing.
Kate Smith: Mm-hmm.
Le’Nise Brothers: For some, so I say this because I don’t necessarily want you to feel like you don’t
Kate Smith: Oh, I know.
Le’Nise Brothers: minimise the work that you’re doing.
Kate Smith: Yeah. Thank you. That’s really kind. Yeah. It can, and, and also it is a really important point that, you know, menstruation. It really can be life changing. You know, there is a very dark side to menstruation, you know, particularly around mental health. You know, it, it really can be life changing for some people.
So to be able to support those people is, there are people who have, have heard stories and, and even have a friend has PMDD. So it is really, really, you know, really struggled. And actually even just the realisation that you’ve got that and getting a diagnosis can be life changing so that you can, you know, make the changes that you need to change or get the support that you need to get, to be able to cope with, the things that are going on.
And, and the same with endometriosis and, and other medical conditions that people do need to adapt their lives and change their circumstances and to give them an opportunity to be seen and you know, heard. And I think one of the most important things that we talk about in our sessions is actually believing people.
You know, if somebody’s saying I am in so much pain I cannot move. Actually being like, okay, I believe you. Yes you are. I think that’s, you know, just making people feel like they’re being valued and not dismissed. And I think, you know, we’ve come from a world where we lived in a very put up and shut up environment, particularly around menstruation.
You just keep calm and carry on. And we, but we shouldn’t have to do that. And I think that allowance for people to just be like, do you know what, Nope, I am not carrying on like this. And that is absolutely fine. So encouraging people to get the right support is something that yeah, a, a smaller part of obviously ’cause there’s not huge amount of people that have life changing circumstances around menstruation. But supporting that the small community of people that do is one of the really, really important bits of our work.
Le’Nise Brothers: Yeah. Yeah. I, and I’m sure it’s just, it’s so, it’s so helpful. What’s coming up next for hey girls…?
Kate Smith: I’m sure all people who run businesses can understand business is tough. Particularly at the moment. You know, things are hard. Social, running a social enterprise is hard. So at the moment we are just carrying on, and pushing. A huge piece of work that we’re doing is within the workplace that’s, you know, way I’ve mentioned that being such a important part of our work at the moment.
And really empowering workplace, you know, provide us to put period provision in their workspaces and doing a lot around period dignity and equality in the workplace is where we’re really focusing. You know, still doing a lot of work with the, with our community partners, still sending out a lot of donations.
And we are going to clo, we’re going to close for Christmas for the first time ever. So that’s something that’s really nice for us all to have a break. I think it’s really important. This year has been really tough. Mm. And I think everyone, I want everyone to have a break and come back really refreshed and ready to take on 2026.
And take that, you know, by the horns and, and keep, keep going. Keep pushing, keep getting those donations out. Keep bringing those sales in. That’s what we’re going to do. Yeah. Uh, that, that’s it.
Le’Nise Brothers: Yeah. Fantastic. What’s the one thought that you’d like to leave listeners with today?
Kate Smith: I think, to go back to the beginning, to go back to if you’ve had a negative experience with menstruation, don’t let that define the rest of your experience with menstruation? I’ve had, I mean, there’s some bits that I haven’t spoken about today because I can’t. I’ve had some really, really negative experiences, really shameful and look where I am now. All I do all day, every day is talk about menstruation. You know, don’t let that define how you’re going to think about menstruation forever. And if you are struggling and feeling shameful and embarrassed and there are people, find your community. There are people out there who want you to talk to them about it and get the right support. It’s just finding that person. And a lot of the time, as soon as you start the conversation, somebody will grab it and, and go and run with you. And that’s really lovely. And I’m sure we’ve all had that, you know, with a friend or when you’ve kind of started that and they’ve gone, oh yeah, I’ve had that. And then you kind of just feel that little bit lighter. And I think that’s really beautiful. That’s something that’s a really lovely thing to, for people to be able to do.
So yeah, that’s, that’s it.
Le’Nise Brothers: Yeah. Great. Where can people find out more about hey girls… and the work that you do.
Kate Smith: It’s just www.heygirls.co.uk. We’ve got a website which has got everything you can ever need. Products, education contact details if you want to buy products for your workplace. Uh, you can always email me kate@heygirls.co uk if you want to chat more.
But yeah, there’s everything that you know, we’ve got time of the month leaflets, we’ve got Pads for Dads leaflets. We did a beautiful campaign in collaboration with Michael Sheen. And probably, you know, subconsciously was off the back of my experience with my dad to create education for men, for those people that don’t have a menstrual cycle to be able to support young people with with puberty and with products and with all those other things that come at that time of your life. So yeah, there’s um, there’s the Pads for Dads campaign on there so any people that don’t menstruate but are listening and they have somebody in their lives that they think actually I need to go and learn about this. We really encourage people to, um, ’cause you will have somebody that you love in your life that has a menstrual cycle and that might need you to be informed and educated as well. So there’s all sorts of things on there for everybody.
Le’Nise Brothers: Right, Pads for Dads. Immediately that’s just stuck in my mind. Yeah, I love that.
Kate Smith: It’s, it’s a lovely campaign. I put my husband on the front of the leaflet. And I really hope that when my little girl gets to that time in her life, that it’ll be my husband and not me who has the conversation with her ’cause I think that’s, I think the relationship between a, a dad and a daughter is really special.
Yeah. Um, and I love the thought that dads are, with our resources now, staying part of that really close relationship and supporting kids through, so I think, yeah. Something that’s lovely.
Le’Nise Brothers: Great. Thank you so much for your time today, Kate. It’s been wonderful speaking to you and all the links to everything you mentioned will be in the show notes and I really encourage everyone to go check those out.
Kate Smith: Lovely. Thank you so much for having me.